Are you adopting in the state of Arizona, or is Arizona one of the states that you're considering adopting from? If so, then you need to check out my conversation today with Christie Blackwell. Christie is an adoption attorney in the state of Arizona. And not only is she a wealth of knowledge, but she really allows us to break down the entire process from start to finish and dive deep into those steps that can be a little extra confusing, especially when you're just starting out on your adoption journey. 

Amanda: Christie, thank you so much for joining us today. We're really excited to have you here.

Christie: Well, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Amanda: Awesome. We are so excited to learn everything we can about adoption law in Arizona. Do you mind before we dive into that? Do you mind sharing just a little bit more about yourself with the audience?

Christie: Sure. I've been practicing law for about 19 years, most of that doing adoption work. I started out as many of us did, maybe, and family law quickly taught me I didn't enjoy that very much. So I started building the adoption side of my practice. So now that's all I do exclusively: adoptions and things around adoption, guardianship terminations, all of that type of thing. And I've been a member of the Academy of Adoption and Artificial Reproduction Attorneys since 2013. and just finished four years as the president of the Arizona adoption coalition.

 Adoption Law in Arizona: An Overview of the Process and Requirements

Amanda: Awesome. Well, thank you for all that you've done for our country as it relates to adoption, specifically in Arizona. That is quite interesting. I'd love it if we could just dive into a general overview of adoption law in Arizona, if you don't mind.

Christie: Sure, like a lot of people say about their own states, I think that we're pretty adoption-friendly. In Arizona, when a mom signs for consent, it's irrevocable. So we have no revocation period, which many prospective adoptive parents like. And we also have a process for dealing with prospective adopters, potential fathers, or potential fathers who are not married before birth so that we can deal with that issue before birth. So we're limiting the risks of adoption. And that way, we can get to finalization sooner for most families.

Amanda: Wow, that is very adoption-friendly, I would say, from a hopeful adoptive parent's perspective. So in the state of Arizona, are you following what I would call a typical process whereby a hopeful adoptive family would have a home study that would give them the kind of initial approval to proceed with pursuing adoption in the state of Arizona and then work with some sort of professional or on your own to potentially match their adoption? Those would be kind of like the two fundamental pillars, if you will, to begin the adoption process in Arizona.

Christie: Absolutely. So Arizona's home study process is a little bit different than most; when you hire somebody to prepare your home study, they'll complete it, and then it gets submitted to the court for what's called certification. So the judge then has 60 days to review it and then either certify a prospective adoptive parent as acceptable to adopt or not. And, of course, they can go through an appeals process. if they're not certified. Most of the time, somebody will know they're going to get certified just by working with their home study provider. So the home study can take a little longer to get in place in Arizona because of that extra step of going through the court for certification. But then, once they are certified to adopt, that's how we say it in Arizona, as opposed to "home study approved." Once they're certified to adopt, they can work with any adoption professional, so long as they are licensed in the state that they're in. So that could be an attorney licensed in their state or an agency licensed in any state. They're not permitted to work with what some of us call a "facilitator," which would be somebody who takes payment for a match but is not a licensed attorney or agency. But they can work with anybody who's licensed for their matching services.

Amanda: Awesome. And when it comes to those steps in between the certification and then choosing the kind of partner to match when they're working on their profile, they're allowed to work with someone on their profile as long as they're not paying that individual to match them with expectant families. 

Christie: Yeah, so maybe somebody who calls themselves an adoption consultant is okay. because they're paying for services, not necessarily the match. and that's also true for advertising. So if they wanted to post their profile on a website or an app that hosts adoptive parent profiles, they could do that because the payment is for their subscription and not necessarily for a specific match. So that's permitted.

Amanda: That totally makes sense. Awesome. So when it comes to the overall process, once they're certified, they're going to work on their profile and potentially do that during that 60-day window that they're becoming certified. So that way, they're ready to start sharing it at that instance. And then they're working on matching, and those steps don't necessarily vary whether or not you're working with an agency or an attorney. Would you say that’s correct?

Christie: Yes, yeah, I know, some adoption professionals have a very specific idea of what they want that adoption profile to look like, but many attorneys are a little bit more flexible on it. But if you're trying to match their specific agency, they may want you to use their form, but in general, an adoption profile can be used for different matching services once they've got that put together. Yeah, yeah, some of us professionals like to have our direct information on the profile book, and some adoption professionals do not want it. So my advice to my clients is to create your book without it. And then, for those of us who like it, you can just put that on an address label and stick it on the back. That way, you're not creating different books for different matching services, agencies, or attorneys.

Tips for Prospective Adoptive Parents in Arizona: Navigating the Adoption Process and Choosing Adoption Professionals

Amanda: That's a really great idea. So when it comes to really choosing your adoption professionals in your state, do you have any tips for them as it relates to the kind of things that they should look for? I know, this is kind of a bonus question. But since we're here and talking about it, I thought that someone you know in the state of Arizona could really help guide folks into what areas they should be looking for.

Christie: Well, I think it's important for prospective adoptive parents to consider having more than one matching service that they're working with. So when they came to me, I always talked to them about what else they should be doing and who else they should be working with. And I think if prospective adoptive parents are working with three, four, maybe even five different matching venues, that's what I call them. as long as they're low-cost entries. Right? Then it increases their chances of getting a match, and it may increase their chances of finding the right match for them. And I always advise them that if it's somebody who says you should only work with me, they should consider whether they're really watching out for your best interest or for their own. So I encourage my clients to work with other people as well. and try to include one agency if they can afford it.

Amanda: Yeah, I really agree with you. I often tell my clients that they should consider multiple methods of matching. And you should share your profile in as many ways as are legally possible and that you feel comfortable with in your state, right? So if you don't feel comfortable recording a TIKTOK video, then don't create a TIKTOK account, right? And if you don't feel comfortable including, you know, a phone number on your profile or on your website, then maybe don't do those things. But make sure you understand what's legal in your state. And then, quite honestly, the more you share it, the greater the opportunity you have to match it ultimately.

Christie: I absolutely agree. I think you can have contact information. That's not necessarily the information you use all the time; use an email like Christiewantstoadopt@gmail.com or something like that. It doesn't have to be the email address or the phone number you've had for the last 20 years.

Amanda: Exactly. I often recommend getting, like, a Google Voice number, because that comes to your phone as an app. Or you can go as extreme as getting a whole new set of cell phone numbers specifically for your adoption as well. Sure, exactly. Yeah. So wow, we've already covered a lot of ground in just the first couple of minutes here. But as it relates to, you know, the overall process, just to recap for the audience, you're going to get a home study, you're going to choose which types of, you know, methods of matching you're going to use, and you're going to line up all of these partners, right? Whether it be an agency or your attorney, you're going to make sure you have everyone kind of on board; you're going to get officially certified, create your profile, share your profile, and finalize it. And then, when it comes to that at the matching phase, let's take just a minute to talk a little bit more about that in particular. So in the matching phase, there's going to be a couple of more steps that are going to happen in that phase as well, right? You're going to create that initial conversion and have that initial conversation with an expectant family. And depending on how you're matching, that could come through your attorney or through the agency. And then, at that stage, a lot of questions come in from our audience, typically as they relate to what is allowed in the state from an adoption law perspective. Would you mind talking a little bit more about what kind of support and things are allowed from a legal perspective? Sure.

Understanding Adoption Laws in Arizona: What Support is Allowed for Prospective Adoptive Parents?

Christie: So we handle living expenses. I can think pretty easily here. We have a pretty clear statute on it that says that prospective adoptive parents can help with reasonable and necessary living expenses during the pregnancy and then for a six-week recovery period, or eight weeks if she has a C-section. So reasonableness and unnecessaryness are not defined by statute. But what we often see is that, if needed, it could include paying for her rent, paying for her cell phone so that the minutes don't run out and we lose her, helping with food, and things like that. Counseling and medical expenses are often covered for the birth mother, but they're outside of what we define as living expenses. If they're going to exceed a total of $1,000 throughout the entire process, then they must be approved by the court before we exceed that $1,000 limit. So we'll have that expectant mother sign an affidavit that details exactly what is needed and what she's anticipating receiving. And we'll file it with a motion, and once it's approved by the court, we can exceed that $1,000. But one of the benefits of it is that we create a very specific budget that she can expect and rely on, as can the prospective adoptive parents. And most of the time those funds go through the attorney or the agency; there's not a specific statute saying that the adoptive parents cannot do it; we just find that it creates a weird relationship. and we don't want that to happen. So in my office, it always goes through us. And we pay as much of it directly as we can to the landlord at Verizon, wherever it might be. I'm just depending on each mother's needs. and they can vary dramatically. Sometimes I have clients who don't need any living expenses at all. And some of our expectant mothers have a lot of needs. So that's how we handle those as well. But during that time frame after the match, we're also not just helping her with her financial needs; we may set up counseling for her, and we may start discussing the openness agreement and getting that put in place before placement happens. in that way. I think it makes the expectant mother feel much more comfortable about signing her consent for adoption knowing that the openness agreement has already been signed. Yeah,

Amanda: I think that is honestly the sign of a great partner that you're thinking about those elements, because those are really important. I often tell my hopeful adoptive families that are interviewing potential adoption partners to, you know, ask how the transaction conversation really works when it comes to money. If she calls and says, "And he gaps money," how is that handled? Right? But then you also have to be preparing for the relationship that you're going to have after finalization. You want to make sure that you're on the same page, right? that you have the same vision of this child's life and everyone's involvement in that child's life from the very beginning. You don't want to have any surprises, or you want to avoid as many surprises as you can.

Christie: "After birth." For sure. Yeah, I always tell my clients, if you're going to maybe take her to an OB appointment and you want to stop at Subway and give her a little food, that's always okay; that's just being nice to somebody in your life. But if ever requested money happens, there's only one right answer. and that's to blame it on me. I don't remember. Let me run it by the lawyer. I don't want you to do anything wrong and then make me the bad guy. happy to do it any time they're uncomfortable. That's the right answer, which is positive, and I get the attorney's problem.

Navigating Adoption in Arizona: Understanding Revocation, Finalization, and Self-Matching

Amanda: That's right. That's right. All right. And honestly, if you're not sure, I'll always err on the side of asking if you don't want to do something to put your opportunity in jeopardy. So then, once the baby is born, we talk about the revocation period as not really something that we focus on in the state of Arizona. But can you talk about and unpack how revocation and even finalization work in a little bit more detail for the audience?

Christie: for sure. So any parent cannot sign their consent for adoption until the child is at least 72 hours old. So that's three days. But once they sign it, of course, they can sign it after 72 hours, just not before. Once they sign it, it is irrevocable. So we don't have that window of uncertainty, but there is a longer waiting period. So hopefully, the baby and mom are healthy, and they're going to be discharged before those 72 hours. And that is common in our state because of our 72-hour rule. So what she'll do is sign that hospital third-party authorization form to release the child to a third party. And that's the prospective adoptive parents. Sometimes they'll also request a power of attorney, which we can facilitate. And then the adoptive parents will take the baby to their home if they live here, or to a hotel or Airbnb if they don't, and then wait until the legal process can be completed. And then she'll sign with her attorney privately. She doesn't need to go to court until sometime after that 72-hour period. and then it's irrevocable. If we have a birth father involved, he can also sign, but the same 72-hour rule applies to him if he's involved.

Amanda: Okay, and if he's not involved or not named, how does that work in the state of Arizona?

Christie: So she's identified a potential father, meaning she's not married to him, but she's identified a potential father. He can be served with what's called a "potential father's notice." Some people just say "adoption notice" anytime during the pregnancy; it could be as early as seven weeks pregnant. And once he served, he had 30 days to go to the family court and file a paternity action saying, “I want to be identified as the father; I want to start paying child support; I want custody orders; I want all of that.” And if he doesn't file and serve it within 30 days, we don't need anything else from him. So it's really ideal to serve them early in the process, if possible. And it's rare for them to actually take the necessary steps within that 30-day period, but it gives them the opportunity to do so, so it's kind of shifting the burden. If you want to interrupt the adoption plan and parent, this is what you need to do, but you don't have a long period of time to do it.

Amanda: That makes sense. Yeah. And I think it's really important to note that some other states call it a putative father, and they talk about putative father registries and all of that. So it is different in the state of Arizona, if you've been watching this legal series, if you will, from that perspective, so don't get confused that that is still a dynamic that comes into play.

Christie: We actually have three types of fathers in Arizona. So maybe we should address that briefly. One is a presumed legal father; that's a husband, and I can't serve him with a notice because he has elevated rights that we have to deal with differently; he must either sign the consent as well, or I have to terminate his parental rights if I have a ground to do so. So I always remind my clients to ask if she's married. I would say at least 20% of the clients I work with are married. and usually there's a way we can get around it. But we need to know so that we can deal with it. The second type of father is the potential father we already talked about. And so that's whoever she's identified as the birth father or birth father's. And then, third, we do have a putative father registry. Okay, and so we do the search, but we can't do it until the child is at least 30 days old. and that's to catch a name that maybe she didn't tell us about. And so that protects the rights of a man she didn't identify. But if he is not on that registry within 30 days of birth, then nobody else is entitled to the notice. and we can terminate rights based on that alone. So somebody will say, "Well, what if he doesn't know about the registry?" The act that created the child was his notice.

Amanda: That totally makes sense. So that is a great clarification. Thank you for that. So then you are finalizing the adoption after those 30 days?

Christie: Yes. So we finalized it quicker here than in most states. So if we're finalizing in the state of Arizona for a newborn adoption, that can be as soon as 90 days after we file that petition for adoption, so approximately when the baby's three months old, because we only require that one post-placement supervision report. However, if the Arizona baby is going to a family out of state, non-residents are not permitted to finalize an adoption in Arizona unless they're adopting one of our foster children. So if you're coming to Arizona for a private adoption, you'll need to finalize that adoption in your home state when you get there.

Amanda: Yeah, that makes sense. And if you are adopting a child from Arizona but don't live in the state of Arizona, I would assume the interstate compact for the placement of children still applies as it does in other states. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. which basically gives you permission to leave the state with the child once the state of Arizona has spoken with your home state. And they've both agreed that you will then finalize the adoption in your home state.

Christie: That's always included in the ICPC package, for sure. And our Arizona ICPC administrator is very efficient. So right now, sometimes we can clear our home state and our sending state, Arizona, within a few hours. In most states, it could be a few days, which is still very reasonable. But right now, it's pretty efficient to run ICPC through Arizona.

Amanda: Yeah. Oftentimes, I tell people to be prepared just in case it's not, because you never know. I was one of those unfortunate souls long before COVID. It's been three weeks in Florida. They come home. It's been a long time. It's a very expensive trip when it's that long. And you're just at that point; you're anxious to go home. So be prepared, just in case, but always hope for the best. But yes,

Christie:  I was talking about remembering that we can't even submit the ICPC until she has signed her consent. So that's already three days that we're waiting, and then we can submit it.

Amanda: Yeah, for sure. And as you touched on briefly earlier, choose a place where you feel comfortable hanging out with the baby for those days, right? Whether it's a hotel or an Airbnb, just think through those logistics as well. 

Christie: For sure, you've got to be able to warm up those bottles.

Amanda: Exactly. And the ability to do laundry might not be a bad thing from time to time, for sure. Yes. Well, this has been so helpful. So I've got a few more questions, if you don't mind, from our audience. So typically, I get a lot of questions in my direct messages on Instagram and Facebook, specifically around self-matching or independent matching. And based upon our conversation, I'm thinking that that is legally allowed in the state of Arizona, but you might just catch up on that as well.

Christie: Sure, absolutely, we see a lot of self-matches. and they happen in a variety of ways. I've even had a client whose waitress was pregnant; they made friends with her over that hour and a half, they met up a week later, and they absolutely had a very successful open adoption. So that's not very common. But it shows how self-matches happened in a lot of ways. So I really encourage my prospective adoptive parent clients to be open to that and to talk to other people about how they're hoping to adopt. Because the people in your life that know and love you are your best advocates, right? When they hear about an opportunity somewhere else, they're absolutely going to advocate for you and tell you about it. So self-matching happens a lot. And in fact, in Arizona, if you self-match while you're still in the process of getting your home study certified to adopt, we can still help you. We just can't match a non-certified family. So by statute, agencies and attorneys are not permitted to share your profile book until you're certified to adopt. But if you self-match and give us a call, then there's a process where we can go to the court and get temporary custody, pending the certification. And those happen; I get a few every year just like that.

Amanda: Yeah, that is awesome to hear that that is still a possibility. so you can keep things moving forward. But you know, if you're hoping to adopt, you definitely should take the necessary steps to, you know, begin the process of becoming certified. and often, you know, encourage people to do that. And then work on your profile, because, as we shared earlier, I think certification for the ICPC is a little different if you self-match out of state. 

Christie: Yeah, I definitely need that. homestudy, totally certified for ICPC.

 Tips for Creating an Adoption Profile That's Easy to Share and Digest.

Amanda: That makes sense. But you touched on something there that I think is really important for our audience to keep in mind as it relates to your profile. So you want to have something that's easy for people to share, digest, and get to know you, right? So if your friends and family are shooting on your behalf, you're not going to pass out a million books right away. But if you're going to share it with your friends and family, maybe a business card with a QR code that links to a website, right where they can get to know you a little bit more and then decide to reach out to you, or maybe just your phone number, you know, like text me, you know, on that business card, and really think through how people can advocate on your behalf and equip them with something that's not cumbersome or overwhelming to them. But also think about when it gets to the, you know, expectant family; they may not be in the position at that moment to share and advertise that they're considering adoption. So have something that they can discreetly tuck away. And you know, maybe not the big, you know, book to haul around at the moment.

Christie: I'm a big fan of the card, whether it's a QR code or a link or something, and then maybe even at a holiday Christmas, whatever, include that in your Christmas card and send Christmas cards to twice as many people as you normally would. That's right, whatever; nobody gets a card; send me an Easter card with that information in there.

Amanda: It does not have to be complicated or expensive at all. I mean, you can print business cards on, you know, those websites for like 20 bucks for like several hundred of them, right? So it's a great idea. I love that it's just a little bonus tip. So then, when we work after, you know, kind of into the finalization stage, the adoption is legally binding. And you're really kind of just moving into what I kind of called the post-placement stage; you're moving into just parenting and making sure that you really hold up your end of those connection agreements. There won't be anything else that we're missing at that stage of the process.

Post-adoption communication agreements and the importance of open communication in adoption.

Christie: Well, for Arizona, if we're using an Arizona openness agreement, we call those packets or post-adoption communication agreements, and they are enforceable in court. So they get signed by the adoptive parents, the birth parents, and eventually the judge. So those might get enforced, but it's pretty rare because most adoptive parents are very good about honoring them. But of course, that agreement also states that if somebody fails to honor it for any reason, that's never grounds to set aside an adoption. But the judge could enforce, "Hey, you forgot to send your updates and pictures; do so now." We'll follow up in 30 days, but never set aside an adoption. But that often makes the mom feel much more confident about signing her consent, knowing that it is enforceable. So of course, you want to make sure that you follow up with that because, as a new parent with a newborn, you're going to get busy. It doesn't mean you didn't mean to miss those deadlines; maybe your calendar says that those are important to keep that relationship in place. And something I recently learned at a conference that I think was invaluable that a lot of adoptive parents may not think of is what they like, but I told my child when they were two, and we've read that book and they know their adopted, a two-year-old brain is going to absorb that differently than a five-year-old, a seven-year-old, and a 12-year-old. And so it's really important to continue to bring it up and talk about it so that they feel safe to ask their questions, which will be different at those different ages. And that way, they always feel open and safe at home and are not worried about whether their adoptive mom, whom I like to call real mom, is going to hurt their feelings. And so I really encourage my adoptive parents to keep opening that conversation with their child because it will build a stronger relationship and make them feel safer.

  

Amanda: Yeah, and I'm so glad you touched upon that. As an adoptive mom, I use what I call "age-appropriate language" to talk about adoption in our lives. So, when my little ones were little, we would talk about how they grew in my heart and not in my belly and how they grew in another mommy's belly. Right, and you know, those types of things And now that my daughter is seven and my son is soon to be five, we use different language and we talk about them with their first names, and Mommy, you know, this person, I don't say their names to protect their identity, or, you know, mommy, this person, and, you know, my daughter will ask questions about, you know, I wonder what she's doing today. Or, you know, there was a solar eclipse recently, or a lunar eclipse for me recently, and we were talking about it, and she was like, "I wonder if she saw that, too," you know, and so really embracing those types of moments into your point, making safe space for that, because you always want to be, especially as their mom, their safe harbor, right? and having those conversations open. So I love that. Yeah, can we talk a little bit about the packet, as you called it? Can you talk about some of the common things that hopeful adoptive parents need to begin wrapping their minds around as it relates to the types of updates or the types of contact that are typical in the post-adoption space?

Christie: Sure, because of open adoption, there's a huge spectrum of what that might mean. So most of them include some level of providing updates and pictures; sometimes we'll use a third-party site for that; there are a few different companies that provide that service; some of our clients just want to do it through email. So that's another good reason to have your adoption email set up. And um, some of our birth mothers may not always have access to email, or maybe that changes a lot. So we try to be flexible with how she wants those to happen. And then we set up a schedule. They can always share more, but I always say this is the bare minimum; this is how much you're promising to send. And it's usually more frequent in the first year or two, maybe even as much as monthly. But then it tends to go back a little bit, maybe to quarterly and then twice a year. And then maybe at the end, once a year, we're only talking about the first five years, and sometimes we're talking about all 18. And then separately, we'll have a section on maybe in-person visits. I try to encourage my clients, at least for the packet, to just talk about visits for the first five years. After that, maybe you have such a strong relationship with your parents that you can keep doing them for as long as you want. But sometimes, an expectant mother really wants it in there for all 18 years. and we can do that. And then I always like to include language that's very clear and that everybody agrees on about whether the birth mom can post photos of the child online or not. Most of the time, we agree without the adoptive or legal parents' permission. Of course, she can share them with her close family and friends. But that's different from sharing on social media. Yeah. And then I always like to include something in there that I think helps the birth mom feel competent: that the legal parents agree to create a will, or that they name any guardian, of course, that they want for their own child, but that the guardians also promise to honor the agreement.

Amanda: "Oh, that's a good addition." Yeah.

Christie: So that's kind of how packers work here. And occasionally, if babies go into another state, if it violates that state law, then we have to do a good faith agreement, but we try to include basically the same information in there. Most of the time, people are very honest and true to it and are going to honor it anyway. 

Amanda: "For sure." Well, thank you. I'm sure you saw the lightbulb moment go off in my brain, "Huh, that's not something I should do myself."

  

Christie: Someone you know and trust would probably honor it. But yeah.

Amanda: yeah. But do they have the details and know what to do? That's always a good thing to do. Yeah, make sure that's captured. Of course, that's because it's in my brain and on my computer. Of course, that is very good. Well, this has been really, really helpful. I have a couple more questions as it relates to self-matching before we kind of wrap up. So we talked about self-matching being allowed. Can you talk about paid advertising? Specifically, if they were, I'll give a few examples. Because I know examples always help if they were paying, you know, a social media platform, paying for Google ads, or maybe even paying for one of those matching kinds of apps or websites that exist. Are those elements allowed under state law when it comes to self-matching in Arizona? 

Christie: All of our prospective adoptive parents can do all of those things. So the only thing that is not permitted is the facilitator-type thing that we talked about before. So the advertising is all okay here.

Amanda: Okay, perfect. Awesome. Well, those are the primary questions that our audience has always asked me to ask. But I'd love to know if there are any additional things that you'd like to touch upon or that you think are really important for prospective parents to know as they're getting started in their adoption journey.

Christie: Sure, one of the tips that I like to give prospective adoptive parents is that as they're working with their different matching venues, they're going to have their own requirements, right? And many of them, like the prospective adoptive parents to fill out, maybe an adoption preference checklist, you know, what they're looking for with gender, race, the level of drug exposure, things like that. And my suggestion is that you are way more open there than you think that you are. You can always say, "No, I don't think this is the right opportunity for me." But you never get to say yes to something you didn't hear about. You might also check a box that says I'm only able to pay up to 5000 and living expenses, but then you don't hear about the one that was like, perfect otherwise, and she wanted 6500; maybe you would have been willing to make that adjustment, given the situation. So don't be too restrictive on that list. And if you start restrictive at the beginning of your journey and start to feel differently, remember to update those lists.

Amanda: That is a really great tip. Yeah, you never know what you don't know, right? And so to your point, there are some times that you're like, "I can make that adjustment; I am okay with that with additional research, or this situation is a little bit different." and you just never know. As we went through our own process, I would often call, you know, either my OB or a pediatrician. And I kind of had them on standby, if you will, to ask questions that I just didn't feel educated enough to answer. But to your point, we left our restrictions pretty open because that gave us the opportunity to see more opportunities, and we really decided we were okay with that. That's great.

Christie: Another one I like to say to Arizona families is to not be afraid of the Indian Child Welfare Act; we often refer to it as the ICWA. But in Arizona, we only follow the federal ECWA guidelines that permit a mom to do a private placement without notifying her tribe. Now, if you match with a mom out of state, you're of course going to want to check with us about that state's laws and whether we have to notify the tribe, and then we'll do research on which tribe it is and whether they're likely to interfere. But Arizona has a lot of reservations. And so we do see it quite a bit. But we also do a lot of successful replacements. So just use that phrase,ekwa," and don't run from it. Have the adoption professional you're working with ask the follow-up questions to complete your due diligence and see if maybe it's still the right match for you. 

Amanda: I think that's a great point. And then also finding an adoption attorney that is comfortable working with a Native American birth mother and understands the laws that are applied, because not all are. So that is something you definitely want to ask from a nuanced perspective.

Christie: Wow. That's a great point. Ask if they've done it before. Before you hire any adoption attorney, ask yourself, "Is this really what you do? 

Amanda: For sure. and it's okay. If you hire an adoption attorney, don't think you're going to need that particular aspect. because they can always recommend someone to consult with, right? 

Christie: And we all know who those go-to people are. Yeah.

Amanda: Yeah, sure. Sure. Are there any other tips or kinds of parting thoughts you'd like to leave our audience with?

Christie: I'm sure; maybe this is something I learned from somebody else. If you've gone through your infertility journey and you're really frustrated, make sure that you grieve the loss of the biological child that you really wanted before you really embark on your adoption journey, so that you don't bring those negative feelings over here and inadvertently project them on to the expectant mother that you're working with. Yeah, that is a fair loss. and it deserves its own grief. But the adoption journey is separate. and it can be beautiful. And understand that it is a journey. It's not an easy transaction; it's not a business transaction. It's not easy, but it's definitely worth it. and it's its own beautiful thing.

Amanda: Yeah, you're exactly right. That was something that I really made a huge mistake on in my first few months of adoption. And really, I didn't take the time to grieve. I didn't take the time to process those feelings. And honestly, it made things more difficult. So I completely agree. That's really important. Well, thank you for having me. Thank you so much for your time. Christy. Where can our audience go to learn more about you and get connected with you? Sure.

Christie: So my practice is called Stewart and Blackwell, and my law partner, Corey Stewart, is also a fellow of the academy, so he can also help with your adoption needs. And we're in Chandler, Arizona, and we have Facebook and Instagram. And we're at www.stuartandblackwell.com and you can find us online.

Amanda: Awesome. And we will make sure to link to you in the show notes in the blog post and in all of those relevant details as well. We are so thankful for your time today. We hope you have a great day.

Christie: Okay, you as well. Thank you.

Amanda:  Wasn't that conversation just amazing? We are so fortunate to have Christie join us and really walk us through the entire process from start to finish. Remember, my friend, you are one worthy of support, and if you have any questions, you have Christy's contact information above.  Or you can send me a message by heading on over to my adoption coach Facebook group or sending me a DM on your favorite social platform. Remember, I'm here with you every single step of the way. I'll see you soon, friend.