Are you considering adopting a baby in the state of Idaho and wondering if self-matching is legal, if advertising is legal, and generally what the process is? Well, if so, you're in luck, because today we're having a conversation with Bart Browning, an adoption attorney in the state of Idaho. BART has been practicing adoption law for well over 38 years and is a really great resource for us to get to know what the process is like in Idaho.

Amanda: Let's dive into our conversation with Bart and learn more about adoption in Idaho. We are so incredibly fortunate to have Bart join us today to give us an overview of adoption in Idaho. Bart, thank you so much for joining us today.

Bart: Thank you, Amanda. It's great to be with you.

Amanda: We’re super excited to learn all about adoption in Idaho. And I know we will only be able to get to a few of those things in our conversation today. But I would love it if you would just start with an overview of you and your background, so our audience can get to know you a little bit better.

Bart: Thank you. I appreciate that. You know, my wife and I were married in 1980. She was 18. I was 22 and off to college. We went because we thought we would have a big family. No kids came for five years. And so those of our peers who were having children were anxious to have children. So we decided to adopt, and we were fortunate enough to do, I think, what was Idaho's first open adoption back in the day. So that was 1985. And we adopted our son on short notice, and that was great. So we actually met the natural mother and had a chance to be in contact with her. and it was a wonderful experience. Two years later, we adopted our second child on like four hours' notice, and then my wife got pregnant a few months later. So we have three children—one store-bought and one homegrown. We were both born and raised in Pocatello, Idaho. We now live in Twin Falls, Idaho; we've been here since 1988. Because I had just passed the bar exam, I had the opportunity to be my own attorney on my children's adoptions. So it was fun to go into court. And then the second time in court, my wife was, you know, I think she was six or seven months pregnant with her biological child. So I started noticing friends started reaching out saying, "Hey, we would like to adopt or we know somebody who's been adopted," and all of a sudden, I realized there were a great number of people that would like to add to their families through this great option of adoption. played. I enjoyed playing sports; I played a lot of baseball growing up and played one year of college baseball. My wife loves to play the piano and the violin, and she loves the outdoors. And we go on a lot of bike rides, hikes, and whatnot. Her family is large. She comes as seven; she's one of seven siblings, and they're all married. And they all have between six and 10 children. And I'm just the opposite. I have one sister, and there aren't a ton of kids between us. So it's nice to see that these families have joined together.

Amanda: Yeah, I love how adoption really led you into being an adoption attorney. And I'm finding that it's becoming increasingly popular as we kind of go through these interviews that someone seems to have some sort of connection back to the adoption world. You mentioned that, as you know, the opportunities to adopt your children happened rather quickly. Do you mind sharing just a little bit more about that and how you were connected through your adoption?

Bart: Sure. And I think I may have missed it on the first one because the first one came from some friends that knew the natural mother, and we had a chance to meet her and answer all of her questions, and we had to bring ourselves up to speed to make sure that we were comfortable. And so it was real for us. It was great. But I think, and I guess I'm old enough, that I've seen the transition and adoption itself go from kind of a cold, detached, confidential Roche to a more open, everybody's on the same page, and let's keep the channels open. And we were right in the middle of that here. And so it was great on the first one; we had that opportunity. And, and, and, and, and that openness is still out there. So it's been a wonderful thing to just experience that. On our second one, I had a friend who was an attorney, and a child was born. And it's my understanding that the adoptive couple was looking for a boy, and it was a girl. And so they backed out on the morning of the birth. And so we got a call that afternoon. My wife was out at the country club doing swim lessons with our two-year-old son. And I said, Hey, would you like to add to our family by way of another adoption? A little girl? She said, Sure. Someday, we should do that. And I said, "How about four o'clock Central?" And she said, Well, I need to run to Target and get some diapers and some Similac. And let's see if we can't make that happen. And so it happened, and there we were. And then, a few months later, she got pregnant. So it's interesting how things play out. But we were, I guess, ready, in a sense, to take on that. That situation, I'm not a huge fan of four hours notice as a lawyer, because I love to give everybody a chance to get to know each other and bond and create relationships that help natural mothers with the confidence they need to go through with an important decision that's best for them, and the child medical histories, legal risk analysis, all of that kind of goes out the window, if you've only got four hours, but for us it was worth jumping in. And then it worked out great.

Amanda: That is amazing. Well, thank you for sharing that. I have been in a variety of situations, if you will. I've had an opportunity where we knew for a couple of weeks, and then we had an opportunity where the baby was born. And you know, we want to talk to you tomorrow. In this type of situation, can you come on down? In your writing, there are very different experiences. And that leads to, you know, different amounts of information that you can exchange and get to know each other. And my preference is always that babies are obviously safe and well cared for no matter the amount of time, but the more you can form that relationship prior to birth, I definitely think that helps.

Bart: Yes, it's a positive for everybody. It ends up being a win-win. It's a win for the adoptive couple. It's a win for the mother and a win for the child. So if you do it right and you have the time to do it, it's up. It's not, I mean, the decision itself, which I think is a big decision. Sometimes it's a difficult decision, but it's a good decision that the natural mother is faced with. And so, you know, just the time is an element that really seems to help the process go well. So that's our immediate family. You know, we got married, and then we had three kids under the age of three. And our girls are eight months apart. And if I don't explain that they're both adopted and one came a month or so early, then people kind of think we're weird.

Overview of Adoption Law in Idaho: Balancing the Best Interests of Natural Parents and Adoptive Families

Amanda: Well, I'm excited to get to learn more from you and our conversation today. Because obviously, you have a rich amount of experience, both personal and professional, as it relates to adoption law, sitting on both sides of that table. I know that our conversation today is strictly for informational purposes only and that we're not creating an attorney-client relationship here. So always, let me get that disclaimer right up front. But I would love it if we could just jump into a general overview of adoption law in Idaho. Generally, you know what's allowed and what's not. And if it's easier to explain it through the process, we can do that. Or if you just want to start with an overview, we can start there too.

Bart: I appreciate that. A couple of things that I think are unique to us are that we're really conservative. And so if a natural mother would benefit from financial assistance, for example, we have a criminal statute that prohibits most of that. And yet, up to $500 is allowed for pregnancy related expenses, you typically pay the vendor of those expenses or living expenses, prenatal postnatal care, counseling, etc. $500 doesn't go very far in today's row. And so you can, with an informal application to the local court and the judge, get court approval for up to $2,000 for those types of expenses. And you can even go beyond that if you need to, but the court wants to be the gatekeeper on that. I think other states are. And I'm not sure what all the other states do. But there are states in our western region—California, for example—and some others that I think are very liberal in that regard. And so that's one thing that oftentimes out-of-state adopted couples are working with, maybe an out-of-state agency or something; they don't realize that particular law in Idaho, so I always try to find out: have they been helping the natural mother? Has it been reasonable? Has it been relevant to the case, and if so, then I quickly get my local judge involved and get him or her to approve that after the fact? You can even do it after the fact. So that's interesting. Idaho, I think, is a very pro-natural state in the way the statutes are constructed. For example, it used to be that if she identified somebody as a possible father, you'd have to actually track that person down, notify them, and give them the opportunity to see what they wanted to do. But, you know, maybe he's in Orange County, California, and you don't know the address, and you had to publish with a readership of over 4 million people, or 8 million people, whatever it is, today, and that publication costs between three and $5,000, just to chase down a kind of phantom person who wasn't really interested. So our laws are really, I like our laws; they say the act of intimacy itself puts a potential father on sufficient legal notice that he has the full balance of determining the pregnancy to do whatever you'd like to do. If he weren't, he could file a paternity action pre-birth and make his wishes known by registering with our putative father registry. And he can help the natural mother out with expenses; he's supposed to do that if he wants to be involved. If he doesn't do those things, then she's not obligated to track him down, try to legally get him involved, and suffer that delay and expense. So I really like that because oftentimes, in an unplanned pregnancy, there's not an intent to raise the child together, to get married and raise the child together, or to be a single parent. The child of the natural mother can have confidence that if he hasn't registered timely, she can go forward. And she is the gatekeeper. She's the parent. We all know who the mother is, unless it's a surrogacy case. So I really liked that. I think we're really streamlined; she can go to court. Soon after the child's born, there's no mandatory waiting period, but the waiting period has to be filled well enough to go in. So if I represent the natural mother, I just make sure she's ready emotionally, legally, and medically. She's off any medicines that might affect your ability to think clearly. If you had a Peasy Autumn or something over the weekend, or a C-section, then of course you waited. Idaho says you don't know you're the natural parent until you appear in court. We don't have a notary. Some states allow the natural parents to sign away their rights or relinquishment by way of a notary; we don't do that; we're required to go in front of a judge, and he or she will make sure the person is competent and represented and has had a chance to have all of her wishes met or make sure that she's comfortable with the process. So I really like that, and I think that's a good thing. And it can move quickly, and it can move with some confidence that things are going to go the way she wants them to go. She's really in the driver's seat when a natural father gets involved, and he's supportive. Then we build him in, and we have continuing contact agreements where adoptive couples and natural parents can stay in touch. If the agreement is breached in Idaho, you don't have the right to get the child back. But you do have the right to get your pictures, letters, updates, and things like that. So I like the openness that we've accomplished. Most of our natural mothers in particular qualify for pregnancy Medicaid through Idaho, which is a huge financial blessing for her. And the process that benefits the adoptive couples as well. Then the adoptive couple, if things go well, come in, and their insurance picks up the child's expenses. And then you have the federal adoption tax credit, which now is, you know, over $14,400, and it applies whether the adoption is successful or not. And I really liked that, so a lot of people can go forward with financial confidence that they can take this, you know, risk or this experience and not get burned, essentially. So those are the things that kind of stick out in my mind. In Idaho, we usually do confidential admissions at the hospital. If she wants her privacy protected, we make sure that we know the hospital protocols and make her wishes known, like who's welcome and who's not, and what type of person is going to be in the delivery, and all of that, and then she usually wants some mementos, maybe the hospital birth certificate with the footprint, or maybe an exchange of gifts or an exchange between her and the adoptive couple, where she actually physically invites them in and hands the baby over, so to speak. And we create a photo album and things like that, and then whatever the agreement is, we go forward and continue contact. So if that's a long answer to a short question, I'm sorry about that. Let's attack it one other way: if somebody is a natural mother, if I know there's a natural mother out there, and she calls us and says, "Can you help me?" I'll say, Yeah, let's do this; let's just get to know each other first. And of course, in that process, I'll analyze her medical history and get a complete medical history; that's important. And I'll see what the legal risk is by assessing her stability and her need for counseling, not her age or her experience. If she's 26, already has a child that she's raising, knows how hard it is to be a single parent, is doing this for all the right reasons, and has great family support, then she's pretty solid. If she's 14 and scared to death, has never been through it, and needs all the help in the world, And may we approach it a little bit differently? So we go to that point, we usually help her see what type of family she might be interested in. We also have families on file, so to speak, as portfolios of prospective adoptive couples; if she identifies a certain type of family, then we review those with her. And if something kind of triggers in her mind, then we set up either a telephone conference or I will contact that particular adopted couple and say, "Here's the medical history; here's the legal risk. Here's what she's looking for: Here's how tall she is: Here's her color. And Sarah, are you interested? Yeah, okay, great. Let's set up a first meeting. And then we'll meet in person, by telephone, or by video conference, and try to start by giving them each a chance to kind of fill each other out. If it progresses, well, then we make our wishes known to the hospital, and if there's another natural parent involved, we get him involved as well. I'd like to talk to my grandparents too. We have some of our cultures here out west, in our small communities, where the extended family is really coming to the rescue at the last minute to prove that they are trying to be a positive resource. And so, sometimes it's not a positive intervention, especially if it's late in the game. And grandma comes in, and I'll take care of the baby, or something shows up at the hospital, or whatever. So I like to involve extended family and make sure that everybody's on the same page if we can.

Amanda: That makes sense. So as a hopeful adoptive family, would you also, I'm assuming, have a home study that you would have completed prior to your profile being shared with us? Yeah.

Bart: Yeah, thank you for that; those homestays are great. And in Idaho, they check every database; there are five or six different databases that are important for that home study. There are certain crimes that can disqualify a prospective adoptive couple, and those are typically related to injury to a child. So they get a really in-depth FBI, state, and FBI, which is the Federal State of Idaho, which is the state, of course, criminal background clearance. They also check child abuse registries, sex offender registries, elder abuse registries, and those types of things; it's really comprehensive. So you can give the natural parents reassurance that this family exists, and of course they do financial, emotional, and all that, but those home studies are required in Idaho before the adoptive couple can take physical custody of a child, and it's such a great thing to be able to tell the natural parents, particularly the natural mother, yeah. The family picture, of course, is not going to disqualify the courts from approving this adoption.

Amanda: It definitely makes her feel more comfortable. For sure. It does. Yeah. So when it comes to profiles, when you're sharing that with her, are you sharing a book, a brochure, or a website? What is typical in your practice?

Bart: Yeah, because I'm old enough, it's usually been a portfolio or, you know, a two-, three-, or four-page photo album with a description. We'd like to introduce ourselves. And here are our interests, hobbies, and talents: this is why we would like to adopt that type of thing with social media and the opportunities that come with it. Now that a lot of those portfolios are also online, they can go online and share them electronically. So we'd do both at this point. I like that because you can share those things instantly, update them, and whatnot.

Amanda: Yeah, that's that update part, which I think is really important, too, because people are always looking for something more, right? Because I've talked with some expectant parents who are natural parents, and they're like, Yeah, I've looked through the book, and I wanted to hear them; I wanted to see them doing the thing; I wanted to see them playing in the backyard with the dog, or, you know, whatever it is. And so going out to watch a video on a website or on social media to learn a little bit more about them seems to really help create a different level of connection and an emotional connection on a really different level. I know that, in several cases, expectant parents have told me that it made them feel more comfortable with the family that they chose. And so that is always very interesting to see. So once they have connected and started forming that relationship, obviously, the amount of time you have until birth will impact the amount of time you'll have in that manner. But as you kind of went through that process, you touched a little bit on the fact that there are financial support resources that are allowed in the state of Idaho. And as with the best practice, we're hearing in many other states that it's really best for that exchange of funds and for those needs of funds to really be a conversation that happens with the natural parent, with the adoption attorney, and then with the adoption attorney back with the hopeful adoptive family, making sure that the funds really flow legally according to what is allowed. And by the physical distribution of funds. Would you say that's accurate in Idaho as well?

Bart: Yes, yeah. So after we usually have the adult make sure the request is legitimate and verify that she's pregnant, for example, it's number one, and then we go to the providers. And then, of course, if there's an agreement and if we need court approval, we'll get it, and then we'll have the adoptive couple send the funds to our trust account, which will be the gatekeeper. And then we send the money; the preference is for us to send the money from our trust account to the provider. So I can give that evidence to the judge for his or her ultimate approval; you have to get it approved twice on the front end. And then, at the time the adoption is finalized, you again, or if the child's going across state lines through the interstate compact on the placement of children, you want to document that. And then, for the federal adoption tax credits, be able to claim those expenses using the same financial trail and documentation. So yeah, it's really, really great. If the adoptive couple has done some of that on their own before we get involved, then we shore it up a little bit and make sure it's presentable to the IRS and also to the core. But I think it's very important for us to know that money is not the driving factor. The driving factors are the best interests of the mother and the child. And if a father is involved, of course it is for him as well, not the money. So maybe Idaho was tailoring me to think that way. But that's the way we approach it. And that's the way it approaches it. So if there's a need, it's legitimate, and it's reasonable, typically, the courts are very supportive. But ultimately, the court will be the gatekeeper. And we'll have to look at it on the front end and in the finalization puzzle.

Adoption Law in Idaho: The Legal and Logistical Preparation During Hospital Time

Amanda: That makes a lot of sense. I always caution hopeful adoptive families: if you get into a situation where you're connecting directly and you don't yet have an attorney involved, please, please, please do not share money at all. You know, get an attorney involved before you do anything to make sure that you're just protecting yourself and the opportunity.

Bart: The other thing I'd love to do is, a lot of times, have my natural mother call me and say, "What else have we helped me with? Will you represent me? Yes, I'd love to. But she may not be here in our local town of Twin Falls, Idaho; she might be elsewhere in the state. I'd love to go to the facility itself and let them know I'm coming. I try to find out what their protocol is. And then I go up, and after I've walked through the hospital with the natural mother three or four months before the baby's born, we meet the staff and find out who's going to be on call over the weekend. They're nearly different from the people that are there that you meet on Wednesday at 10. In the morning versus Saturday afternoon at two, Sunday at one, or Christmas morning. In my practice, it seems like if there's a holiday, the baby's going to be born on the holiday. And so I want to know, and it's just so helpful to have been there and know the people involved. The key people involved are so critical, I think, even at that practical, local level, and each hospital has different protocols or no protocols. So you might get a call. Hey, Mr. Browning. Bart, would you tell us what to do? Yeah, okay, great. This is how you do it. And I'll send you the documents that we've used with other hospitals in the area, and you can run them by whomever and then help them through the process. But, you know, everybody's usually very supportive; they realize it's a great decision, and they want to help out. But I don't like proceeding when I don't actually have all the answers that make me comfortable. So I'm going to make sure I'm super comfortable. And I usually do that by doing practical things like visiting. And then I sat down with the hospital's person in charge of adoptions. It's usually a nurse. And I go through all their protocols and documents, and then I bring them home and review them with the natural mother. For me, it's really important to get all the legal and medical documents. If I'm representing her well enough, I'm not going to have her be comfortable with those two or three months before the baby comes versus laying in the hospital bed, just having given birth. And going through all the normal emotions and transitions, they go on, let alone on top of that, going through with her decision, and then saying, Oh, by the way, here's 30 pages of hospital paperwork, I'd like you to review. And she's not even, you know, up to that. So I think the timing on that's been one thing I've learned is that the more I can do before she ever goes to the hospital, the more I can make her feel comfortable. So she's not preoccupied with the legal And she's not preoccupied with the hospital. She's preoccupied with getting through safely and getting the channels here safely. And then in Idaho, she has the right to change her mind at any time before she goes to court. So she's the timekeeper on that. And I always revisit that issue with her and make sure she's ready to go. And then we just schedule it at her convenience and the court's convenience. And then we make it happen. And then, at that point, it's a win-win, I hope, but typically, it always has been if it's handled that way.

Amanda: Yeah, I love your attention to detail in the hospital process. That's something I recently created a guide for in my community around the hopeful adoptive parents guide to, you know, the hospital time. To your point, there are legal and logistical things that happen. And then there are emotional things that happen, right? And the better you can be prepared, the better you can understand logistical things like, "Can I go to the hospital? Right? Is that part of my agreement with her? Where does she want me? Then, second, will the hospital allow me to be there? And if they allow me to be there, what does that then look like? Can I be, you know, on the same floor in a different hallway? What are those logistical things? Are they prepared for us to show up? You know, if we get the phone call from her to your point non, you know, whatever random Saturday afternoon that she's in labor and it's time to be there, the last thing you want to do is travel and get there and then say, "We didn't think you were coming; you're not allowed, right? So I'm preparing for that. And then, from my own personal experience, we, our son, or his first mother, decided that we had the opportunity to make medical decisions for him. Once he was born, she gave us that power of attorney. And one of the doctors there didn't want us to make medical decisions on his behalf. And so any decision that came up for his care in those first few hours, we would, you know, say what we wanted, and he would say you don't have the authority to make that decision. And I would say that with power of attorney, we do have that authority to make the decision. No, we have to go back and talk to her. And I'm like, "Oh, that's fine. And I understand, you know, where we are, but also for her. If she's given those decisions to us, then that kind of puts her back in a situation of wondering what's going on. And so I had to have a conversation with her and just say, Hey, listen, you know, we are fully comfortable making these decisions. You know, here are the questions being asked; here's what we're thinking from a decision perspective: the doctor wants to hear your final word; it is your final call, right? And in her situation, she was like, Oh, I wish they wouldn't do that. Because I gave you the power of attorney, I want you to make these decisions because I want to move on, you know, with my healing journey. So to your point, having kind of all of those ducks in a row as much as you can so that if you get into that situation, you feel prepared because your emotions are running a bit high on both sides of the table, so to speak, for sure,

Bart: Yeah, they are just a side issue with medical coverage. With Obamacare came some great opportunities for adult children who may still be living at home up to a certain age of 25 or 26 to remain on their parents health insurance, but a lot of those health insurance policies They cover the child, that 24-year-old or 25-year-old child in that family dynamic, but they don't cover the pregnancy of that dependent. They cover the dependent, but there's a dependent pregnancy exemption, an exception from coverage. And so, you know, sometimes natural mothers will come in and they'll say, "Do you have health insurance? I'm covered by my parents' health insurance. And I'll say, "Well, let's read it. Let's get a copy and go through it. Because it probably covers you for a sore throat, tonsillectomy, flu, or whatever. But I doubt it covers the maternity leave that you're going through. So it's been helpful to flush that out. And if it doesn't, then Idaho typically will look at the natural mother uniquely during the time of her pregnancy and not disqualify her from Medicaid eligibility based on the fact she's living at home. And her dad and mom are still working, and one of them's working, and there's an income in the home, they'll say, No, for purposes of this, we're going to treat you as a separate entity and see if we can get you Medicaid qualified. So I always like to go that route, too, just to make sure that people aren't working under false assumptions. That's an incorrect assumption on issues like that because her pregnancy bills are going to be the most expensive. And then if there's a problem, then you've really got to, you know, if you have a really big medical bill sitting there, and an adoptive couple cannot assume those financial risks. So it's helpful to do that, too. Those are nuances that you kind of learn along the way. But for sure, it's that reassurance, you know?

Amanda: Yeah. And kudos to you again for doing that due diligence. Because, again, not all attorneys take the time to figure out what is covered and not covered. And I definitely heard some instances where people, you know, have surprise bills for, you know, something like that that come up, you know, even months after delivery and finalization. And it's like, Oh, this isn't covered, and how are we going to accomplish this?

Bart: I know this is another nuance, but I put in the paperwork. And it probably hasn't happened as recently as it used to. But sometimes, we've had insurance companies say, Well, she didn't actually place the baby until two days after the child was born. Therefore, there are two days of uncovered work; you know, we're not going to pay for those first two days. Of course, the first day is delivery day, right? So I make sure that the placement is retroactively affected the moment the child is born, so there's no insurance argument there that they're not going to cover. That's really important.

Amanda: Yeah, that insurance gap can catch up. That's funny. This has been so helpful. So I know we talked a little bit earlier about the fact that sometimes people are connecting through agencies, but sometimes people are connecting through a friend of a friend or, you know, through a random introduction, maybe in a church community. Is that something like self-matching, which is also called independent matching? Some people call it private adoption. And it goes by many different names; is that generally allowed in your state?

Adoption Law In Idaho: Self-Matching and Legal Considerations for Prospective Adoptive Parents

Bart: It happens with social media all the time. It's not being prosecuted; it's not being punished. We do have a criminal statute that says advertising for adoption is prohibited. Unless you are an agency or a licensed attorney, the attorney can broadcast or advertise his or her services; the agency can do what they do; but a private person isn't supposed to do that. That's a little different. Advertising is a little bit different than reaching out. So if you know somebody and there's a lead, yes, you can contact that person directly and try to match yourselves. That's okay. But to actually put yourself out there is not, although you see it all the time. Because agencies and other people are trying to help, whether they're facilitators or strictly helping, maybe adoptive couples get their portfolios out on the internet, for example. I'm not sure they're familiar with Idaho law. And again, it's not that Idaho's prosecutors aren't really paying attention to that. I don't think they care. But it's an issue that I care about because it's a crime, and you don't want to submit it here. You don't want to have your clients commit a crime. So you've got to be careful. In Idaho. I think our legislature ought to be approached with an updated statute now that social media can go worldwide with a keystroke on your computer and your portfolio can go worldwide. And the other thing I found with social media is that, you know, it used to be that if an Idaho person got pregnant, they were typically kind of looking for a match locally or somewhere in the state. That type of thing works through schools, junior high schools, high schools, counselors, physicians, attorneys, or hospitals, whatever religious help they have through their clergy, et cetera. And with social media now, it appears to me that they just get online, push a button, and tend to pick somebody without much forethought. That's not true in every instance. But, you know, I have had a case where a natural mother was here with a twin and she got online and picked an agency out of state back east somewhere, for example, then the agency called me and said, Would you send your quad A attorney? You know, you do this all the time. Would you represent us? Would you represent this natural mother and help us out in Twin Falls, Idaho? And yet, here she is, you know, down the street from me to begin with, and it kind of went full circle. And I think you find that more and more today. I'm surprised that we don't have yellow pages anymore. But if you go to what used to be the yellow pages, you'll see a lot of out-of-state advertisers that are not agencies, and they're not attorneys. And there's a ton of that going on. And some of their fees are, I think, excessive or exorbitant. So I think there are some; there needs to be some protections at least, and I tried to help. The earlier I get involved, the better, because a lot of money can go out the door early if you're not careful. But I saw the matching; you can match all day long, privately. But you cannot do it. Publicly, officials and advertisements So you're going to be a little bit careful. And if you're an adoptive couple working with an agency and you're in Idaho, you better be aware of that. Or if you're out of state and you're going to be running that portfolio with them, they're going to reach out to Idaho; just know that. That's currently not allowed.

Amanda: Yeah, I always coach people. The very first thing you want to do is figure out what method of matching is right and get your partner lined up, right? So if you are going to work directly with an attorney to match, then great. Go find your attorney if you have to work directly with an agency to match. But if you're going to try to self-match, then you still need to get that attorney involved from the start. So you understand that self-matching is allowed in your state, so how can you share your intention to adopt legally in your state or in other states that you might be considering, and that your adoption attorney will have to have one in your state to represent you in making sure that you connect with them? And they get you the proper legal advice to say, "This is what you're allowed to do," and then go create your profile and go share it, or go get your home study lined up, or, you know, go take those other steps that you need to do. Of course, I have a course where I teach people all the steps and give recommendations on who to reach out to, but you want to do these steps intentionally because, one, it's going to save you from putting an opportunity at risk by spending money unnecessarily. And if you do those steps out of order, you're going to cost yourself time in the process and potentially money if you go and put together this full portfolio that you cannot use based upon the laws in your state. So you want to be really mindful of that, for sure. Well, our conversation has been terrific today. I'd love to just wrap it up by asking if there's any advice that you have for those who are just starting the journey. Or maybe you've been on the journey for a minute, just from your perspective and experience as an adoption attorney and adoptive parent.

Bart: Yeah, thank you for that. And I just want to mention, before I answer that, that the Indian Child Welfare Act is still floating around out there, and states are, whatever happens federally, considering codifying it at the state level. So there are issues out there that I am not sure I would expect adoptive couples to be aware of. And these laws are good in their inception and their intent, and they are there, but there are certain laws that you have to represent to the court if you've ever complied with them or if you've gone down the road and seen that they don't apply. And you've given that to the adoption. So it's important to know those risks up front. I think, you know, adoption has changed a lot in the last few years. I've been doing this since 1985. So however many years that is, I think it's changed for the better in the sense that it's more natural parent-driven now, meeting their needs, and they are the key players, and then the adoptive couples, I think, are able to proceed with confidence if they do it in the right way and maybe not with as much financial risk as there has been in the past. So I'm grateful that we have federal subsidies, help, and tax credits. There are other financial benefits available at the state level, Idaho has some subsidies too, if you're in the foster program, for example, in the adopt, you can qualify for personnel, etc. It's a great way to augment your family. And it's also a great way to give natural parents an option that can work out well for them and the child. So I love this part of the law; it's more about building families and helping them avoid any emotional, legal, or financial pitfalls that may be out there. And if everybody's educated and feels like it's best for them, it's neat to see kind of an emotional, psychological, even spiritual confirmation at some point during the process to both sides, especially to the natural mother and get the one involved in the natural father, where they really transition psychologically and start thinking about knowing that this is the gotta affirmation that this is great for them and the child, and all of a sudden, they're excited about it. And they start thinking about this new family that they're helping to create, and they stay in touch, or they stay part of that kind of extended group that has been a real positive change versus, you know, way back in the day when there wasn't any information shared. It was strictly confidential. The cases were closed, and the doors were slammed. And I'm not sure there was enough of that. And I don't know how you heal or get through that process if you're a vulnerable young parent trying to make this lifetime decision about what's best for your child. So I'm grateful that we have gone down this road. I think the practice itself is a wonderful thing to do. I'm glad to have specialized in it, so speak as an Idaho attorney. And there's a huge need for the service. I think, whether it's agencies or us, there's something, and I'm glad to be part of it. And I look forward to continuing to do that. I'm glad it's done it for the last half hour, and I can't even count back that far. But let's say 85 plus 15 is 2000 plus 23. So it's been 38 years for something.

Amanda: That is terrific. Well, that experience has definitely been helpful. And our conversation today, and I know the audience will find our conversation helpful, How can they reach out to you and get in contact with you if they're interested in adopting an Ico,

Bart: I appreciate that. They can call our Twin Falls, Idaho, number, which is 208-733-7180. My email address is Bert David Browning. So it's BDB@JohnsonMayLaw.com. And we do have a great website at johnsonmaylaw.com It's a full-service law firm out of Boise. I'm the Twin Falls guy; I've been in Twin Falls since forever. And there are two of us here. And then there's a large number up in Boise. But our firm goes back; our great-grandfather started the firm. Alfred May and then his son, James May, became district court judges and started the Idaho Trial Lawyers Association. And then his son, JD May, is my senior partner, and his son, JD May, is my junior partner. And so we've been doing this for a long time. And adoption has always been something that we're happy to do. So that's how you get a hold of us. And I'm the guy, so just ask for me. And we'll get the ship pointed in the right direction. And I don't mind doing free consultations either. I'm more than happy to answer questions and point people in the right direction. And if we can't do it, we'll find somebody who can.

Amanda: Awesome. Well, thank you, bar. And we'll be sure to link to all of your information in the show notes where people are watching. They're listening, and they can easily find your information. But we really appreciate you coming on the show today. And we look forward to our audience connecting with you in the future.

Bart: All right. Thank you, Amanda. It's been great. Thanks for the opportunity.

Amanda: Wow, wasn't that a great conversation? I really loved how Bart broke it down step by step and really kind of gave us the nuances within Idaho law. I thought it was really interesting to know that it is okay to self-match. If you're connecting one to one, that is definitely not okay from an advertising perspective. Go and share your profile more broadly. I do think it's also amazing that Bart is willing to accept profiles to kind of keep and share with expectant parents, or natural mothers," as he called them, as they are looking for adoptive families to match with. So I definitely would take Bart up on that opportunity to reach out to him in the show notes so you can connect with him. Learn a little bit more about them. process in Idaho, and potentially even share your profile with him so that he can keep it on file.

Remember, my friend, anything's possible with the right plan and support. I've got the step-by-step process for you inside the adoption self-matching program, including that amazing guide to navigating hospital time as an adoptive family. You've got this, my friend; I'm here with you every single step of the way. And I'll see you in our next episode.