Are you considering self-matching your adoption in the state of Louisiana but unsure where to start? Or even if it's legal, then you need to check out today's episode. Today I'm having a conversation with Todd Boutin, who is an adoption attorney in the state of Louisiana. He walks us through the process, and he gives us the history of what created the adoption law in the state of Louisiana. And he answers if self-matching is legal and if advertising is legal. 

Amanda: One last thing that I need to mention before we start our conversation with Todd is that today's conversation is not creating an attorney-client relationship. In fact, it is for informational purposes only; if you have specific questions about adoption law in the state of Louisiana, you can reach out to Todd directly through the links in the show notes. Without further ado, let's dive into the conversation with Todd. Todd, thank you so much for being willing to join us today.

Todd: My pleasure.

Amanda:  Would you start by sharing just a little bit more about your background so the audience can get to know you a little bit more?

Todd: Sure. My name is Todd Gaudin, and I have offices in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I've lived here all my life, and this is my 27th year of, I'd say, practicing law, because there's a joke about whether you practice law. Well, when are you ever going to stop practicing? But yeah, let me say that this is my 27th year of trying to be a good advocate and warrior or guide, a guidance professional trying to help folks, and I got into this area of law. Somewhat accidentally. Around the same time that I graduated law school, I saw a movie that included some sign language—a lot of sign language, actually. And I think there's something that moved me about that. So I enrolled in sign language classes. And so I started learning sign language, which brought me into touch with a group of Deaf community members. And that led to meeting some folks who had adopted some children from Hungary who are deaf. And so there was an opportunity—another child, a second or third child, who needed a family. And my wife and I were very young at the time. And they approached us and asked, "You know, would you be interested in it?" We were not interested because this was not on our radar. But we had been married for four or five years. and we kind of thought about it. And anyway, one thing led to another, so we did this, so we adopted from Hungary, and that was an international adoption. And, you know, we went through a process that had lots of bumps, was not clean, and had a lot of surprises. But we stuck with it and adopted it. And I came back because I had this experience; lots of people heard about it, and I was introduced to adoption agencies that wanted to know if I wanted to work with them. And I did, and I really liked the work. I liked the importance of what seemed to be more than just transactional. This was like you weren't trying to be dramatic, but you could really impact people's lives. And this was—you know, there's a child involved. So I liked that aspect of it. And I liked the people that I met; these were, you know, good people, good, honest, loving adults. And so that was in 1997. And ever since then, I have evolved. I've gotten better at my trade. and it's expanded. You know, at first it was just like trying to take each case and figure out how to do it, and now my aim is to not only complete it. It was completed with value-added tasks. And so I'm very proud of how I've gotten to be where I am today.

Amanda: Well, thank you for sharing that journey with us. You know, it's oftentimes really surprising to me: how many of us in this adoption community, whether it be adoption agencies, professionals, or attorneys such as yourself, have also adopted? And I think that brings a unique experience to the conversations because you understand what's happening on the other side of the table, if you will, those feelings, those may be moments of insecurity or not being true; what happens next? You pass. Thank you for sharing that with us. Of course. So I'd love to give the audience just an overview of the adoption law in Louisiana. Can you start there?

The Adoption Process in Louisiana: Safeguards and Protections for Birth Parents and Adoptive Families

Todd: I can. So I'm aware that there are various publications out there that have ranked states as, you know, from least adoption-friendly to most adoption-friendly? And I'm not sure, but I think some of that is objective. But a lot of it is also subjective; depending on how you think about things, as my own evaluation of Louisiana is, it's probably somewhere in the middle of the road. And I think when they say "adoption friendly," they are referring to a lot of different things. How long it takes depends on the body of law and who is doing these rankings as to whether or not the laws favor adoptive or birth parents. And depending on where you fit in, how you rank determines, you know, whether that state is adoption. My valuation is that we're somewhere in the middle. And so, unfortunately, way before I was in law school, probably in the late 80s and early 90s, there were incidents of what one might call “baby selling.” I don't know why it was Louisiana; it could have been other states or other countries. And it involves attorneys. And there were some articles written and published in new magazines where, you know, there was one lawyer in New Orleans or someplace who it was alleged that they had known about a baby, and we're, you know, soliciting for the highest bidder. I think that notoriety caused the group of professors, lawyers, and judges to compile what we now call the Children's Code. And the children's code Louisiana Children's, that project was stimulated by, I think, these stories about one or two lawyers; you know, it's always one or two bad apples, right? These articles are coming to the public's attention, and we are definitely not wanting to enable that kind of behavior, But in the body of statutes that we have, the laws affecting juveniles are somewhat scattered all over the place. So the children's code was to gather all these things in one place. So we've had that since the early 1990s. And, of course, it's evolved. But the reason I tell the story about the early 90s, when there were some unflattering stories, is that I think the powers that be written into the children's code are some safeguards to try to prevent that kind of behavior. So we've got some safeguards, like, on the one hand, yes, moms can receive financial assistance in some states; they can't in other states; it's very limited. The evolution of that issue is that moms have always been able to receive financial assistance. And before about 2018, it had to be disclosed and have been reasonable. not only the amount, but what was being paid. To further tighten that up, we now have a firm cap on what can be paid, and under the act, the absolute maximum without any other court approval is $7,500. And that the areas upon which that money can be paid have also been tightened up, so whereas lawyers could maybe get very creative about what was reasonable under the circumstances, that has now really been tightened up. And so things like legal defense for criminal prosecutions or cars or things that one could have said, Well, this is helpful to your birth mom, so that she can then work with you better, have been somewhat tightened up because it's a reform notion, and I was in that group that advocated for that. I say all of this because I'm very passionate about the idea that adoption is something that is a virtue and something that needs to be protected. And because a lot of things are good, they can be somewhat exploited and used for the wrong purpose. So I'd say Louisiana is in the top tier of states with laws that try to strike a balance between cutting out unwanted behavior while still allowing some flexibility in how this goes. So I know I get a lot of calls about, well, okay, so what is it? How does it work in Louisiana? How long is the mom? How long do we have to wait before mom can sign a surrender? Because that is, it's one of like the top three questions that I guess again. And it's important because that period of time from birth until the document is signed is, like, excruciating. Everybody's anxiety goes up because they're like, "Oh, my gosh, did the mom change her mind?" So let me explain that. I don't know if any state will allow a mom to sign a document that is what's referred to as irrevocable prior to birth. and certainly that's not the case here. So if there is an agency adoption involved, the mother can sign a little sooner; otherwise, she'll have to wait three days before she can sign what we call surrender, which other people might call consent. And we don't put it in terms of hours; we put it in terms of days, but because I've worked with a lot of people over the years, it's probably best to go by hours. Again, our statute does not require hours. 

But if it says three days, then we can extrapolate how many hours that is in a private adoption. It's been five days. And I'm not; I'm not. I have some professional differences as to why this is there. It's the reason why an agency can do three and private adoptions as many as five, which is really not based on science but surely is more. Somebody got a bill changed, and it happened. I am on a committee that is looking at this, and we're trying to figure out, you know, where the sweet spot is. We certainly want to give a mom some time to reflect. There are other states like Utah that are like, I think, 24 or 48 hours, which are very, very quick. And adoptive parents would be like, "Yes, that's what we want." But there are a lot of other people who say that we should look at the long term. We want to make sure that moms, when they make the decision, are really doing so in a reflective manner. And so it leaves three days, which is probably good because of the changes that her body is going through, etc. You know, it's three days; the right number is five days; there are opinions all over the place. We're trying to gather some medical data from people in the know, who could maybe sort this out, but there is a waiting period and other states have different and when Well, let me say in Louisiana when she signs this, let's say in a private adoption, it takes five days, and that sounds like a long time. It goes by extremely fast because it leads to those days the mom spent in the hospital, which go by really quickly. And then the other three days where we're making arrangements to set her up with her own attorney and getting all that done, and in the meantime, most, I mean, 90 to 98% of the time, adoptive parents are visiting with the baby in their house or their hotel room because they leave from the hospital and the mom allows them to be discharged with the child. So, you know, they're caring for the child. And so these five days really do go by quite fast. When you're there, you're in the moment. And before mom signs these documents, not only do we have time that helps her reflect, but she has to meet with a mom—I surrender a birth mom—a counselor who has some expertise with grieving and how to counsel mothers who are making the decision. She has to have a minimum of two counseling sessions. Other states have this as a waivable task, but it is not waivable. Here, it's mandatory. And most of the time, we have no problem with moms consenting to that because it's mandatory. And as long as I explain to her that these are 45- to 50-minute sessions with somebody who's there to help you sort through all your difficulties and just be a support mechanism, rarely have we had people who really resist or push back on that. And then on the day of the meeting, they're going to be meeting with their own attorney. So if I'm representing adoptive parents and I contract with someone else who is unconnected with me, that's also mandatory. Who's there just for that mom? Who will answer any questions about the legalities and the consequences of signing it? They will explain what irrevocable means because we can assume that somebody's going to know what that means. And even in my documents, you know, it only takes one problem before you realize, "Okay, I never want to have that happen again." And for a long, long time, in the late 90s, I was doing some work for an agency. And there was a mom who had really resisted doing the surrender. And we were kind of under the impression that she was sort of holding out for the birth father. And she would, she would make an appointment and cancel it, make an appointment and cancel it, finally making an appointment, they called me, and I sat down with her. And I went through the entire document. And in the document, it said, "You know, this is irrevocable." And I explained to her verbally what that meant. It's final, you know, because once it's done, you don't get a grace period. Apparently, the birth father decided or said something to her that he might want to co-parent. And so she hired an attorney to try to undo the surrender that she signed, saying, "I didn't know what irrevocable meant." And so I had to get on the stand. And I had to say no, actually verbally went through all of that. And I was very particular and very specific. But since then, in my documents—and I'm unusual in the fact that I hit all the basic legal minimum standards that the law requires—most people just stop there. I am passionate about No. If I can add to it and enhance it and help a mom who may not have the level of education that others do, I want to make sure that she clearly understands. So when it comes to irrevocable, that term is in my document, but I also have two or three synonyms in the document so that it removes the possibility that some of those factual circumstances could ever come back, like she can ever say they will. My lawyer didn't explain to me what irrevocable meant because it's in the document itself. So there are many, many, many little bells and whistles in my documents. that being one of them. Where I really try to make sure that this document not only has a dual benefit, but also helps the mother clearly understand and remove all doubt as to what she's doing, In addition to her meeting with her own lawyer in her own minimum mandatory counseling sessions, it also ensures that the adoptive parents sign that document, which lowers the risk level that anybody is going to exploit it. So when that document is signed, then it is filed with the judge in the parish, or what we call our year-round counties, we call them parishes. And that judge or their staff, their law, their staff attorney, will look through it to make sure that it complies with the statutes, and then they will sign an order approving that surrender. And that's also a safeguard, because if there's something lacking, we just don't want to make it, and we want to make sure that when we get to this stage, a mom who may not have honorable intentions cannot exploit that because by that time the child is in the family. And so these are safeguards. And this is what Louisiana does to make sure that the process has integrity and that not only the birth parent is given the due consideration that they need, but also that there's no unnecessary litigation about things that should have happened or could have happened. And I know that in other states, a mom has to go in front of, or at least at one time, my mom had to go in front of a magistrate and say, Yes, I really did mean that. And I really want to go forward. There's no requirement like that here in Louisiana; the document that she signs goes, and that's reviewed. And what's important to note is that, when I go back to this time when the children's code was compiled, there was a shift in the way the surrender process was handled. I understand that the children's code was compiled in the early 90s. There was this grace period, and mom could sign a document. But then there was a grace period. And I'm not sure how long the grace period was or where she could come back and challenge it. But she could challenge it on the basis of whether or not the adoption was in the best interest of the child. And that seems to me that if she then found out there was something wrong with the couple that she chose, or maybe the process that she went through that, you know, there was a serious defect, that she could maybe bring this to the judge's attention and see if she could convince the judge to return the child of her. When we did the children's code, they got rid of that there is no grace period, if there's a delay, from the date of birth until she signs her document, and there's lots of things that she needs to do prior to once she signs it. It's set in stone unless she could prove to a judge, within a 90-day period after that, that she was the victim of fraud or duress. And I have not, in my 27 years of practicing, or in my trade my 27 years of perfecting my trade, maybe I should say I've never been part of or heard about any mom. actually proving that she was a victim of fraud or duress. And even though all of that is in the document that I prepare, I'm telling her that she's got this time, but what she has to prove is that it's not just irrevocable, but you really have to show that somebody threatened you or, you know, tricked you. And that's really it. Our process won't allow that because you have all these other people who are there for safeguards. So it's pretty good. My point in saying all this is that this is a pretty good process that we have. I think it's good that the counseling and the separate attorney are helpful. I think it's also helpful that the mom does not have to go in person before the magistrate and that we do all of this on paper. And in my estimation, that process goes very well. I try to go above and beyond in the way we treat the mom, and you know what we expect and create boundaries for, and whatnot. But that's a really good, I think, important piece to know for people who are trying to adopt because it's very natural for them to have anxiety about, If I do this, then what are the odds that it's going to get overturned? or What should I look out for? And so I would say that in that regard, Louisiana has a very good system in place, initiated by some bad stories 30 to 40 years ago, which allowed us to be very cautious about what monies were paid and what better parents would do. But at the same time, I've heard judges say that our statutes are very adoption-friendly, particularly when it comes to fathers who have not signed off on surrenders and how they are treated. 

Amanda: There were two follow-up questions I had there. and you were getting to the second one right there. But first, before we get there on the number of days, the three days if you're working with an agency, the five days if you're doing a self-match or a private adoption, I'm assuming based on other states that those are working days that the court is actually open. But can you touch upon how that works in the state of Louisiana?

Todd: Sure, great. Great question. They are not working days; they are calendar days. So Saturdays and Sundays are all included for this. And so if mom goes into labor on a Friday and gives birth Friday night, we're going to start counting. I mean, you could start and say, okay, Saturday, with the, the idea is the day of birth, we have in our statutes, the day of birth is not counted. So I say five days; I guess technically that's six if you include the day of birth, but at first I was resistant to the hours because that was not something that, you know, was brought out in the statute. And there's nobody teaching you all this; a lot of it is that you learn by doing, and so experience is very, very, very valuable in something like this. And I don't remember in law school, there was no adoption course. So everything I've learned, I've had to pick up over the years from other people through my experiences and whatnot. And so, if the child was born on a Friday night, I would probably start counting Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. And I might. I don't think judges are overly scrutinizing this. I know that in some states, people really do want to count the hours. You know, we might do the surrender in the afternoon, just so it corresponds with, you know, making sure we're not cutting any hours. Again, we just don't want anybody exploiting some little technicality about, well, you're off an hour. I am. So you're too soon. So it's a calendar day.

Navigating the Role of Birth Fathers in Louisiana Adoption Law: The Importance of the Putative Father Registry and Managing Contested Adoptions

Amanda: Okay. And I think you were headed right into my second question, which was going to be the role of birth fathers. So if the birth father is known or unknown, and if Louisiana has a putative father registry or not, how's that handled in your state?

Todd: Yes, we do have a putative father registry. And it is required to be searched, which means that you request that they have it housed; it's in my mind; it's a part of our vital records office; it's like a side office; they have a database, and it collects. Anybody who wants to put their name there can fill out the application, which they will do, and they will put it there. So if there's a boyfriend who's concerned that the girlfriend who just broke up with him might be pregnant or is pregnant, but she's cut off all communication, it'd be very prudent for him if he was interested in and at least, he may not even necessarily want to parent, but if at least he wants to get notice, if she makes an adoption plan, he would fill out a form, mail it to him with the fee, and they would put his name there. And that's like a safeguard that nobody can move forward. The adoption would not be able to be completed without somebody checking that now. There is a slight nuance between the way we deal with the putative father registry, which is just a database, and the putative father registry for those who don't understand. Putative is another word for alleged. So this is a database for non-legal fathers; a husband under our law will be considered a legal father who was imbued with parental rights, a putative or alleged father, as somebody who might be biologically related but has not yet been imbued with any parental rights. They would have to do certain things in order to be able to gain that status as a legal father, and it's not like there's a big distinction between adoption law and policy and I'm versus custody, because in the world of custody, if you're the biological father, you can sort of just show up and, as long as that biology is confirmed, they treat you as the child's father. So that is not the case from our adoption perspective. You may be biologically related, but you're going to need to prove some things to the court if you want to get custody of this child and veto this adoption. You're going to have to convince the court that you've satisfied this criteria before you can get there. But in Louisiana RP, the father's registry is not. I am at a loss for words. I wanted to say, Is it mandatory? If that's the right word, we don't have a mandatory program to beautify the registry. So I understand in other states that the way this works is if that other state, like Oklahoma, or whatever the other state has, is that you can if you fail if an alleged father fails to register with that database, that office, by the time that the adoption is moving forward in the adoption, the attorney representing the adoptive parents checks that registry, and that registry does not contain the name of anybody who's interested in that child, then the alleged father's rights are done, they can move forward and say, Judge, there's nobody who filed this registry, and we're going to terminate  Louisiana is not like that. The putative father registry is an element or a piece of the puzzle; if someone registers, it's a safeguard, but if they don't register, that does not necessarily mean we don't have to continue to look for that person. We can use the fact that they didn't take the step against him. I mean, it's sort of like, when you evaluate that father's level of interest in being a father, his lack of applying to this putative father registry can be one of those elements. But in and of itself, a failure to do so is not going to eliminate him completely. There are lots of other things that the statutes would look for. Did he help the mom? From the moment that he knew the mom was pregnant? Did he offer any contributions for medical expenses? Did he go to her with a doctor? Was he? Does he have a place for the child? Does he, you know, is he? Does he have some substance abuse issues, mental health issues, or domestic abuse issues? I mean, in this regard, that's what judges have. Some judges, in my hearing, have said, Oh, you know, our laws are so adoption friendly, is because they really do place a heavy burden on alleged fathers to prove that they were not just lackadaisical, or they're not just spiteful, or, you know, whatever their motivation could be, that they really wanted it, and that they have the attributes and the character in the circumstances to give this child a home. And they cared enough about the child and the mom while she was pregnant to be helping. And if they didn't do that, it really made it difficult for them to be in a position to veto the adoption. And nobody likes litigation. If I've been to several, I've had several contested cases of adoption, and they're always very difficult because, you know, sometimes it's easy, you know, sometimes the evidence that's going to be put forward to us is pretty good; we should have a good positive outlook in that, you know, the guy doesn't have a whole lot of legs to stand on, but still, it's just the what ifs, you know, and it's difficult. I have pulled off one or most of those, but they're very difficult and stressful. I do put a lot of energy into trying to communicate with the dad, trying to, for lack of a better word, negotiate and try to meet his needs and reason with him. And and you there have been times where that Dad just needs to know that he's not just getting, what is the word just that he's not getting thrown to the Yeah, he's he's due respect he, he, most of the time, he's, they are the biological fathers, and they just want, they just want to know what's going to happen. A lot of times, when they meet the adoptive families, they get a sense of peace that their child is going to be well taken care of. And not all of them, but many of them realize, in their hearts, that they're not in a position to raise his baby. And so I really try to meet them where they are, just like we try to meet the mom where she is; this is not a transaction; this is not like, Okay, look, you do this, this, and that. I mean, there are aspects to it, right? We have to have a system. But we're dealing with human beings here. And if we're all broken in some form or fashion, and maybe the birth parents are more broken in this stage of life, then certainly we hope that the adoptive parents are more healthy and put together, but we have to be sensitive to people's needs. And I know that one of the questions that I get is, Well, what do you recommend? How do you address these people? What's the strategy? Do you come across? And as the strategy like, you, it's a show of force? You know, don't you? Don't you try to upset this adoption? Because, you know, we're going to, and I, for the most part, think that's reserved for the exception to the rule. I think the rule is: look, we want to explain to you that this is not good timing for you, Dad. Yeah. And we're, you know, going to tell you how this is going to work. And we will, we will include you, we will show your respect not only by reaching out to you without being forced to reach out to you, but also by the tone of voice with which we take the information we decide to share. Some couples are more at ease with actually meeting him and talking to him. And some parents are a little bit afraid. And I'll sort of step in and take that role.

But, you know, every case is different. But it's very, in that regard legally, as far as Louisiana is concerned. It is a question of who is the father. What do we know? And I place a lot of emphasis on trying to find out who the guy is, because sometimes you don't even know that. But once you find out who he is, how do we deal with him? If we can't find out who he is, there's a process that we follow to lay that out. And, we just strategize. We figured it out. And then we execute the plan. And we start from the top. If there's a hierarchy we start with, okay. Does it make sense to reach out to him? If that's the case? And let's do it. Can we have a conversation with him? If he won't, if he's not cooperative, or if he's not in a place where he will really want a dialogue or whatnot, then you go to the second tier, which is okay and fine. Look, here's your legal notice. We're going to serve it on you; it tells you everything, including what you need to do legally. And if they don't want to deal with that, if they really don't care, they can throw it in the trash, which is great. We'll wait for those 15 days—15 calendar days—and then we'll move forward. And I think what your listeners may be interested in is all of the possibilities. There's a possibility that an alleged dad could decide to contest the adoption. But there are a lot of opportunities to avoid that. And so we put a lot of emphasis on trying to find out who the dad is, and from the mom, you don't just assume that we're very concerned; we're very serious about it when mom says, Oh, I don't know who the dad is. We don't really believe her on purpose. And so we just want to make sure that we're very diligent because once this thing gets to a certain point, we don't want anybody exploiting it, you know, for the adoptive parents, but we also want the best experience for people who go through it. We are lawyers, and I've been in the game long enough that people say I don't like lawyers or that I haven't had a good experience with lawyers. And you know, but when you but I would argue that if you were if you decided to be an adoption lawyer, you have your, you could stick to the premise that like, all I do is legal work. And you're going to have to go out and farm this other thing out. But I think that we have a competitive advantage, so to speak, because when we were like, No, no, we're going to, if you work with us, we're going to do all of this for you. We've got a good network of counselors and other lawyers. And we care about what birth moms think we care about afterbirth. We care about the prenatal period; we're strict about not getting it; we're strict about enforcing boundaries that say, Yes, Mom, you have this gift of life; you're making this awesome decision. But that does not mean that you get to have Jack around; that's just not something we're going to tolerate. This is a mutually balanced discussion, and we're going to tell you what we expect. And we want to hear what you expect, and we're going to come to this agreement. But you're not going to just, you know, unheard of, I think is the term. And so in that aspect, I think that we take the law and we also add a lot of value-added things on top of it, because at the end of the day, This is not like a will and testament; this is multiple humans, not just the baby. That's true, but it's multiple humans, a mom, and sometimes a dad and a family. And so that just has to be handled very delicately.

Understanding the Seven Phases of Private Adoption in Louisiana with Attorney Todd Gaudin

Amanda: It does for sure; that's super helpful. And I get a good general understanding of a process or what you've shared with us today, which is, you know, of course, that you're always going to start with, you know, determining which type of adoption is right for you, right, you know, if you're at a match with an attorney or agency yourself, man, either way, you always have to have an adoption attorney in the mix. From that perspective, that's super important, and then you're going to move into your home study, right? And then once you've, you know, as an adoption profile expert, always told people that once they've started their home study, that's also the time to start working on your profile, because you want to maximize the amount of time that your home study is valid and that you're sharing your profile and being able to match, then you're going to move into the matching phase. And I think, based on our conversation here in Louisiana today, that you can match either with an agency or directly with an attorney, or you can privately match or self-match. Is that correct? 

Todd: That is correct, yes. 

Amanda: All right. And then you're going to move into what I call the relationship-building stage, right? You're moving into a kind of prenatal period; you're getting into the counseling for the expectant parents, which always suggests counseling for the hopeful adoptive family as well, because there are a lot of things to learn as you go through that. Then you're going to go to birth, and she can actually sign the surrender at birth. And then depending upon how you're matching, there's going to be a three-day surrender period for agency adoption and a five-day surrender period for self-matching or private adoption. And then once the surrender is complete, you know, the time has elapsed, if you will. And that process at that point is that when you're applying, if you're in the state of Louisiana, you're moving into the finalization stage, but if you're outside of the state of Louisiana, you're moving into a kind of ICPC stage, is that correct?

Todd: Amanda is correct, and I liked the way you presented that because many years ago, there was a lot of information that could be very overwhelming to folks. And so I don't think it's, you know, anything necessarily special; maybe other people are doing it, but at least for my way of thinking and to give the clients working with us an idea of trying to figure this whole process out. I actually divided this whole thing up into phases. And I call them phases one through seven; sometimes it ended up being six and sometimes it ended up being eight, depending on how I sliced it up. But me too. Me too, right? You basically describe phase one, which is everybody getting together for orientation and figuring things out. You're getting ready, you know. The adoptive parents are doing their home studies and counseling, and the moms are learning to trust and kind of understand what's expected of them. The hospital phase is that I separate the hospital phase from the signing phase because there are so many things going on at the hospital. So two is the hospital phase for me three is the signing, surrender.

Three are with the signing. And that could include the fact that that's definitely for the moms. So if a mom does not sign a surrender, that really is not an adoption. But if she does sign this legal document, it is an adoption, even if the dad hasn't signed it. So that is an important distinction. And then phase four could be the ICPC phase. For those who don't know, what that means is a it's a, it's referred to as a compact law, which is a law that's been it's kind of a joint law, laws are passed by each of the states, but then they agree that they're going to have that almost the identical set of laws so that they will cooperate, and when what when a child is born in one state, but then is trans is crosses a border, to be to live with adoptive family and another, then there's, there's some additional laws that the attorneys have to comply with, just to make sure that, you know, we don't want to have to go and get grab a child out, you know, back from another law. So it's just a few small safeguards. If phase four is that, and it could be, phase four can also include, you know, dealing with the dad; if a dad has not already cooperated, then that's what we're focusing on in phase four, serving him or whatever we're doing with him. Base five is like the law. It's like they're in the state of Louisiana. We're now uniform in that all of the kinds of adoptions, both intra-family, which is that you have to be within a certain close relative status, either by marriage or birth, you know, blood genetics, or a private adoption or an agency adoption, are now uniform. We do have this international adoption, which we call international, but it's not really that we're going over into another country; it's really more that the child was adopted in another country. And we're just recognizing all of those decrees so that that child can get a Louisiana birth certificate. But in a sense, we're now uniform, because in a sense, an entire family and an agency went through a period of time where a child had to live in that house for six months. But because of this, the problems that are alluded to led to the children's code being compiled about lawyers, one or two of whom I think we're caught, or at least it was alleged that they were selling babies. There weren't any lawyers. In the end, there weren't any private adoption lawyers in the group that compiled the children's code. So there was definitely some bias against private attorneys. And so their way of dealing with this is that they made the adoptive parents, who were working with a private attorney, wait longer. And that was 12 months ago, but that has now been amended. So everybody—a child has to live in the house for six months. And so that's what has been uniformed. And I think that's why I was in favor of that. And so now, even with a private attorney, that child has to live with the family for six months. After that, that would be phase six. No, sorry, phase a Phase Five. That's why I call it a wall, because it's now just a test. You said you were good people in the home study, and you got checked out. You weren't looking for the FBI; you know, you seem like a wonderful family. But let's see how you do, you know, in the real thing; this is a real test. So let's see how you do, and let's see if there are any problems that surface; that's the purpose of this law or living delay, and then phase six in my system is Okay, now we're gearing up for this last go-round. This is where you get checked out one more time. You should do a second background check because, hypothetically, I guess you could have, you know, robbed a few banks. And there are some last reviews. It's kind of a wrap-up, and then we go to court, and the court looks at everything, and if everything He checks out and with us, it's going to be very, everything's going to be tagged and highlighted and everything. We're a little OCD when it comes to that, and then the judge will grant the adoption. And we'll do all sorts of nice things on that seventh day. If everything in my system is okay, what are the loose ends? Let me remind you about the social security number and how that's going to work. Let's remind you about how long the birth certificate takes and how to get your passport if you need one. Do you need a will and testament because now you have a child or now you have more children than you had before. And so it's sort of like a wrap-up session. And so that's the progression of what a typical private adoption process looks like. And each phase, you know, I'm giving you the highlights; you don't have an hour here. But each phase has a lot of characteristics and aspects to it. But that's how adoption works in Louisiana. Works.

Private Adoption in Louisiana: Exploring the Options of Advertising with Attorney Todd Gaudin

Amanda: Awesome. Thank you. I have two last questions that I know the audience will find a lot of value in. The first is, is advertising allowed if you are self-matching your adoption?

Todd: So yes, but it's tricky. So you have to define what advertising means. and that's not necessarily universally understood. Well, I'll give you some things that I've learned or kind of picked up over the years. I'm not saying it's exhaustive. But I, you know, in 27 years, I've heard some things out of it. I've seen some things. And you know, from one end of the spectrum, people pay a lot of money to someone else who will put their profile out in the universe. One could say that's advertising. They're not, so it's not self-matching, because you're paying someone else to do it. And then over here, on the complete opposite end of the spectrum, you could be doing everything that you needed. You could just have a letter-writing campaign, or you could create a Facebook page, a web page, or do all of that yourself. And that is also a form of advertising. And so when I sit down with folks, I'm in favor of self-matching. Because I find that for a lot of people, unless it is financially necessary, it makes sense for you. You can spend a lot of money and not necessarily get the results that you want. I don't talk people out of doing it; I just try to get them to focus on what makes sense for their particular family. Right. And I give them some ideas about why there are some people who get really good results. And this is kind of what their fees are. They have some folks somewhere in the middle where the fees are less. It might be a phone app; it might be a web thing. And, you know, check them out, go to them; I don't get any kickbacks. I don't get any commissions. But go in or inform yourself; look at their stuff; talk to somebody; and figure out what you want to do. But then over here, you know, if you're a member of a church family, you know, maybe talk to your pastor. I've told them that I'm willing to do an adoption seminar, where we can have it at your church, your church can pull it from your church bulletin, and it can bring attention to it. And I can get a birth mom, a mom who is placed, who likes to talk about it. I can talk about the process that I'm talking to you right now about. I can get a counselor to come in. And it's kind of like a one-stop shop; they can go from booth to booth and gather some information, which is also very helpful. And then they can make business cards. I've had people do business cards or trifles. Some people don't like that, I realized. I'm looking when I say that. I look at their faces to see if they're like, Ooh. But others say, Oh, yeah, okay, cool. And, you know, people have gotten results from that. If you're bold enough and comfortable with that, Then you know, if you hand it out to enough people when you're going to get your coffee and you don't mind saying, "Look at my husband, And I, or my wife and I, are trying to start a family. And we don't know where, you know, our baby's going to come from. But if you have a friend who might just so happen to get pregnant and doesn't know what to do and you don't mind giving them our card, we'd love that. And most people will say, "Sure, if you do it enough, the odds that you're going to find somebody in that situation go up." So I give them a whole lot of things to think about. And I'll let them choose what they're most comfortable doing. But I know of no statute; no one's come to me and said that advertisement, in whatever form or shape it comes in, is banned. I know that if I do certain types of advertisements for my firm, my bar association has to approve them. But other than that, I think there's a lot of freedom and creativity that go into how adoptive parents can find a potential match.

Amana: Awesome. Thank you. That's super helpful. And you actually answered my other question there. And so I just want to close out our time together today by just saying thank you for spending your time with us and for sharing all of this information. How can the audience get in touch with you if they would like to learn more about adoption law in Louisiana or work with you?

Todd: TSure. Thank you for that. Well, first, thank you. It's very nice, and I feel blessed that you asked me to do this. It's something that I've kept as part of my law practice. It's not. It's not always easy. It's often emotional and stressful. There can be adoptions that are, you know, wonderful. And there can be some that are like, “It's like riding on a roller coaster.” And, but I remain committed to it; I keep it a part of my practice because it's something that I feel makes a great contribution. And so I'm always trying to build a better mousetrap. So I thank you for asking about this because I like speaking about it. If somebody wanted to just chat with us or know who we are or what about us, they certainly could go to our website. It's good and law group.com. They can see our BIOS; they can see articles that we've written; they can see posts that we've made on social media; they can go and kind of look at the history of things that we want to try to do to help and educate people about our office numbers 22541 to 8048. We do get from time to time folks who just want to have a refresher course. What do we do? How do we do it? Well, you know, try to call my anxieties or at least explain to us: Is it really true that a dad can disrupt the adoption? And, you know, what do we think is really important to us that a mom gets aftercare? What does that look like? Do you do things like that? Do you have programs? and the answer to that is yes. When the mom gives birth and signs, that's not the end of the process for her, not with us. We've got programs that she can get into or do where she can receive validation and receive support from other birth moms who are also doing this if she doesn't feel like and she's the I mean, distancing yourself from your child is not something that is easy to do. And that needs to be respected and focused on while the process continues. But it doesn't just stop; thank you for your child. I hope you have a nice life that's not like it is with us. So I would say the website, our phone and check out our social media, like posts, you know, that we are posting and hopefully that will give you a plethora of information that will be very helpful for

Amanda: Awesome, and we'll be sure to link to all of this in the show notes. Well, thank you again, Todd, for joining us today. and we'll see you soon.

Amanda: Wow, wasn't that incredibly informative? Todd walked us through the history of adoption law and gave us an overview of how it really works in the state of Louisiana. I really hope that you found this information valuable. But if you have additional questions on how to adopt a baby where you are, check out the private adoption program inside the private adoption program. I walk you through the process to adopt a child, no matter if you're adopting an embryo, working with a surrogate private adoption, or a self-matched adoption agency adoption. All of the above are covered. And it's specifically designed to help you save time and money in your adoption journey. So head on over to my At option coach.com backslash program to check it out remember my friend you are worthy of support and I'm here with you every step of the way

Disclaimer: The information contained herein is not to be considered legal advice. We are not attorneys. Should you wish to hire the attorney mentioned in this post, please contact them directly.