Adoption Law In Iowa

Adoption Law in Iowa

Adoption can be really difficult and it doesn’t matter what state you’re in. But understanding the adoption law in the state that you’re considering adopting from and the state that you live in is critical to the process of adopting a baby. This week we are continuing our series of interviews with adoption attorneys from different states, and we’re talking about the state of Iowa today. Iowa is actually a pretty adoption-friendly state, according to our conversation with Shayla, who is an adoption attorney in the state of Iowa. She is also going to share with us the surrogacy process in Iowa as well. So let’s check out our conversation with Shayla.

Amanda: Shayla, thank you very much for being willing to join us today.

Shayla: Thank you for having me. I like to have these conversations and help answer questions for any prospective adoptive parents.

Amanda: Awesome. Well, we are just so excited that you're willing to give us some of your time because we know it is really precious. But I would love for the audience just to start out our conversation by getting to know you a little bit more and more about your practice.

Shayla: Sure. My name is Shayla McCormack. I'm an attorney in Iowa. I have been practicing adoption law for 13-14 years. I've been an attorney for a little bit longer than that. I started in doing family law and just really loved the adoption part of it. Because most often it's so positive and I love to help build families. So that side started growing, and now it is a majority of what I do, that and surrogacy. We're a small firm in Iowa, a female-owned female-run firm. There are eight of us. We love to help families build and navigate the legal part of the process of what needs to be done to complete their families.

Amanda: I love that. And I love that you're a female-owned organization. I wasn't aware of that. That's even better, right? A little hidden gem for us, as an audience. So you touched actually upon surrogacy as well as adoption. So do you mind sharing a little bit more about what are the different types of adoption that are allowed in the state of Iowa,

Shayla: The state of Iowa is fairly open in terms of the types of adoption. We definitely have agencies, whether in Iowa or outside Iowa, who will match parents with birth mothers. And we also are able to independently or self-match when we have a family or maybe someone who's just met. I get the craziest stories of families who are looking to find a child to adopt and co-workers, sisters, brothers family members have connections. I mean, it's crazy how people connect, but they still build their families. So there are lots of different ways that people can match. There's really not a lot of limitations, as long as all in all, we're on the up and up. Money is the bigger concern under Iowa law that we're not paying for a baby. But in terms of meeting and matching. Really, it's kind of open.

Amanda: Awesome. That is good news. So as it relates to money, do you mind sharing a little bit more around the parameters to make sure that we're staying legally compliant with the rules as it relates to how we can support a birth family?

Shayla: Yes. If we do any part of the termination or adoption, which we usually do the termination if the baby's born here, we do need to follow those Iowa laws. And so because we have to report to the court, under penalty of perjury, both in the termination and in the adoption, we follow Iowa's laws. Iowa has a $2,000 cap. So that can be during pregnancy, that can be shortly after delivery. And that includes really what you consider living expenses. Iowa also requires the money to go through some sort of third party. Your attorney can do that trust account, just make sure it's documented. Or you could do it through your agency. We just work out who is going to do it just so one person or agency is doing it. So everything's funneling through. And when we talk about living expenses of what it can be used on, the goal is to pay directly so you're not paying the actual birth mother. So are you paying the landlord? Are you getting a gift card to the grocery store or gas? The thought is to support the pregnancy, not other things. So rent utilities, food, gas, especially things that will get a birth mother to medical appointments, etc. I've done some transportation if they don't have a car, maybe we're doing a bus pass or something else.

Amanda: Okay, that totally makes sense. How does medical coverage for caring for the pregnancy itself count into or not count into the cap there?

Shayla: Well, typically medical coverage is through whatever the birth mother has just because she's most often well into the pregnancy or at least part way into the pregnancy when she self-matches or goes through an agency. And usually, that is through whatever insurance she has, whether that's through work, through the state, etc. I'm not an insurance attorney, but for the most part, it's usually very hard for adoptive parents or impossible for adoptive parents to get the birth mother on their insurance. But of course, it's much clearer with insurance laws that if they're adopting, then they can help cover things for the child. Otherwise, it's just a matter of paying out of pocket, which gets to be quite expensive.

Amanda: Yeah, for sure. It’s kind of a separate section rather than the $2,000 limit on living support expenses as it relates to the pregnancy.

Shayla: Yes. Just because it's not really for the birth mother. But usually, there really aren't those costs, to be honest. Often her insurance covers it. And there's not a lot left, because many times there's other coverage that is helping her and not many co-pays and such.

Amanda: That makes sense. You touched upon one other term that I think would be helpful for the audience, which was termination. Do you mind speaking a little bit more about what that means in the state of Iowa?

Shayla: Yes. So in Iowa, really, we have two steps, fairly similar in most states. And so I'll go over both for just a second. But the termination is the first step where the court is helping us decide whether we are able to place the child for adoption by saying that the birth mother and the birth father are not going to be legal custodians of the child. So that's the first step that we deal with. And there are many different ways that you can work on the case, because there's a termination case, and then an adoption case. And sometimes I work with both, but I'm gonna assume that the moment the baby is born here in Iowa, that's what matters for termination. Typically state law governs where the termination has to be done. And often it's where the parents live, or the child lives. You can often choose. And so when I'm talking about termination, that would be for the birth mother, who delivers here, and then we follow Iowa law on that part. Then we can choose, are we doing the adoption here? Or is the adoptive family going to do an adoption in the state they live in? This could be for many reasons; personal reasons, family is going to come, it's going be fun, it's going be a party, or maybe the law is a little more favorable, we can finish the adoption faster, etc. For the termination part, that’s the first step we need to do. In many states, there's nothing we can do before birth that is legally binding. So there are many steps we can take. I don't want to get too far down the rabbit hole on the legal process, because there's just not a lot we can do. We definitely talked to birth mothers, we make sure they know their rights, do they want to have an attorney because I can't represent both sides, make sure that they have the right to counseling, etc. And then a few of the documents are time intensive. Most states require social medical history. Iowa is not quite as picky as some states. I just finished one from a different state and it was 27 pages. But it's not binding. So in Iowa after the child is born, we're all in touch with a hospital working with the social worker. We can actually start the official paperwork 72 hours after the baby's born. Now I'm not going to sign the paperwork at 2 a.m. But I will try to do it soon thereafter. But we can't do it earlier. And at that point, the birth mother or the birth parents, whoever is going to sign will sign a release of custody, which is really the official document where they're saying I do want to place the child for adoption, and then a couple of other pieces of paper about Native American heritage, about whether they chose counseling or not. Those are the big ones. We then will apply to the court to actually make the termination official. So they can sign 72 hours after birth. And then they have up to 92 hours. So that's three days and then another four days, that a birth parent can change their mind for any reason. And we go over all of that as part of the form. No reason, any reason, it doesn't matter. You tell your attorney you changed your mind. You want the baby back. And immediately that happens. But once that period expires, it's really hard to take back consent. So roughly seven days after birth, if we're moving pretty quickly, the adoptive parents have a lot more certainty. Once those 96 hours have passed, they've signed or days have passed and we get our court hearing, if nothing has changed and everyone consents, then it's really just a paperwork process. We have a hearing with the judge. No one really asked to go other than me. Everybody's still agreeing that this is a good idea and reports this to the court. He files the home studies. But at that point, it tends to be more of a formality. If no one's fighting, the court signs a determination, the official documents saying yes, the biological parents' rights are terminated. This child can be placed for adoption. And then we move into the second phase, which is really more of the adoption.

Amanda: Gotcha. So as it relates to you, we're talking about hours and days, is it business hours and business days? Is there anything in there that someone needs to think about from that perspective?

Shayla: No, it is truly just hours. So we're counting from 72 hours from wherever the baby is born. So this last weekend, on Saturday at 1235, we were able to sign documents. So it really doesn't have anything to do with business days, truly, you can just count. They say the hours I guess to make it easier, so for not no confusion, but people don't usually think in 72 hours.

Amanda: Yeah, that totally makes sense. So then once you've moved through the termination period, what happens in the adoption period?

Shayla: Well this is where we can kind of choose what we're doing depending on where people live. So Iowa has what we call jurisdiction, meaning the court can make an order. If the baby was born here, we've done the termination. Or if for some reason, the adoptive parents are from a different state, and they want to do the adoption at home for personal reasons, they can do that. Or vice versa if the baby’s born in a different state. We've already gone through the whole termination, we have that official paper, and we're now moving to the court to say, hey, these parents are ready, and they want to adopt a few requirements. The requirements can change a little bit if we're talking about close-family adoption. But in general, if you're talking about parties who don't have a biological connection, we filed the adoption, but you cannot have the hearing before 180 days. So the thought is the baby needs to be with the adoptive family. About six months, I always count and the judges never minds. If they're there at the hospital and they're taking the baby and taking care of the baby, that’s what matters. So about six months after they've been caring for the child, they can do the adoption hearing. I like to start a little earlier because you might not get to the hearing for three to five weeks. So we start a little before that. But we have to make sure that that 180 days has been met. We also have to have the guardian ad litem from the first case because they know the family. Now it's a quick, “How's everyone doing?” Easy to update that report. We still have the same report of expenditures, which is how we're telling the court, we didn't buy this baby. Here's what we spent. Attorneys fees are not included at all in that $2,000 that we talked about before. So we list out what the attorney fees are, any extraordinary care for the child, and then we have to have the home studies done. We had the initial home study, now we have someone who's kind of continued to be supervised, I guess I will say it's what the state considers it. So we have a 30-day home study, 90 days, and 180 days. And we just make sure that the home study providers are on it if we want to have a hearing quickly, and get that 180-day home study done pretty quickly, or maybe visit a week early and get us the report. And then the adoption is, again, pretty straightforward and easy. It's a fun hearing. Judges love them because of course there's something very positive they're doing. The child is supposed to be present. But with COVID, I will say one benefit is the courts are well-equipped to do Zoom. And so we do tons of hearings via Zoom if clients for some reason aren't able to travel or don't want to, but it's pretty straightforward. You know, they will testify. It is a court hearing, but pretty relaxed. Just saying we know what we have and we definitely want this to be official and legal. We get a judge and often the judges make jokes and say that is the best part of their day, then we have the adoption decree which is the final step, and then we'll work on the things behind the scenes helping with birth certificates, reminding our clients what they need to do to update social security numbers, things like that.

Amanda: That totally makes sense. I'm gonna go back and unpack a few things that might be a little confusing for our audience through there. So between termination and finalization, what gives you the legal right to care for this child, take them to doctor's appointments, those types of things. What is the proper term for that phase that gives you the authorization to continue to care for the child? 

Shayla: There are a couple of different things that we do to make sure that you have a legal piece of paper to show doctors and such. Usually, no one asks. But I want to make sure everyone has it. So first, I will have the birth parents, when they're signing releases, sign a couple of different documents. One is my intent for placement, just so it's clear. Second of all, we have them sign a healthcare power of attorney. So they're already giving the rights to the adoptive parents to take the child to the doctor and make some decisions, etc. In Iowa, it always was confusing to me. But this is the way the law is. I become the custodian of the child as I accept the release of custody. So once the birth parent has signed the form saying I want to terminate my rights, I'm handing this child over to the adoptive parents on paper, then I need to step in. And the court then appoints me as custodian as I'm working through the termination. So I've been turned around and make sure that I have given them paperwork showing that I'm placing the child with them. They have to sign paperwork, they're accepting the responsibility, the cost the liability, and then also resign a power of attorney, just in case it really came to it.

Amanda: Gotcha. That makes sense. That's really good to know. And it's one of those things that you never know you need until you're in it. How do I take them to the doctor and have permission for them to talk to me about this child? Yeah, that's really important. Another kind of terminology or name that you mentioned is Guardian ad Lightem. So can you talk a little bit more about what that role is and how it differs from your role in the process? 

Shayla: It tends to be another attorney. But the thought is that this is a person who is looking out for the child. Not an attorney for the child, but someone's role, essentially telling the court I've been there. And I know you want the best for the child. But I've read all these documents, I've talked to everyone, and it's someone who's truly looking out for what is in the best interest of the child. And so their role is to reach out to the birth parents, sometimes they get responses, sometimes they don't. Or just confirming you signed this, you meant to tell me anything you want me to know, etc.  And then reaching out again to the adoptive parents, if they're close enough, doing a quick home visit and reading. It feels a little duplicative with the home study. But this is someone who is often licensed, certifying to the court that this is best for the child. So many times we're working collaboratively and together, but they do have a different role telling the court that they're looking out completely just for the child and able to give a bit more insurance that everything is what it says it is, who they've talked to, what they've done to help the court in the process.

Amanda: That makes sense. And they are a different person and a different license than a social worker who's providing the home study, correct?

Shayla: Yes. Usually, it's an attorney, because they're appearing in court doing those things. So they will work with a social worker to make sure they understand the background of what's been done. But their job is to represent certain things to the court. So they're almost always an attorney, who has a little bit extra specialties in making these reports and investigations.

Amanda: That makes sense. Can you also educate us a bit more about birth fathers when they're in the picture and when they're not in the picture? I know that sometimes there can be notice periods and various ways that you need to give notice whether or not he is involved in choosing to place his child for adoption.

Shayla: Yeah, and that really runs the gamut. So we need to do our best to find the father. We don't have exceptions, like some states. We do have to make some affirmative efforts. And so if the birth mother knows or thinks who they might be, I can reach out. Sometimes they're in agreement. The birth father signs. There have been a couple cases where two men sign because everyone wants to be done, so everybody signs. And we just submit that to court. And then we have cases where we know who it is, but they're not really going to respond. They don't want to take care of a baby. And so we do need to provide them notice that the case, which is officially called serving them, or making sure they're handed the paperwork. That has to be a third-party, the Sheriff or private process server handing it to them. So they can’t say, “I didn’t know”. They’re signing an affidavit saying it was handed to them. Many times you'll have a birth father who doesn't want to do anything, won't help, won't sign, but just doesn't show up. Because there's a hearing set. They need to be served with that information at least seven days before that hearing. So they're able to appear and there are certain other periods that they have to have a certain amount of time. Then if someone wants to contest they have to come to the hearing. Usually, at that point, we're set for a trial to figure out if it should be terminated or ordering testing, if we're not sure who the father actually is. Iowa is a state that has a putative father registry. So if you're a man, you can write a note to this registry and say, “Hey, I might be having a baby with this woman in X weeks. So we always send in our formal request to pay them their $15 fee and say, “Hey, anybody out there that thinks they might be having a baby”? I have yet to get an affirmative response. But maybe one day. I can't think of too many men who proactively send in a letter that they might have a baby out there. But always need to check. And so a couple more situations. Sometimes I've had a few where moms just don't know who the father is. Maybe multiple partners on vacation, one-night stand, etc., and don't have contact information. So we then provide that information to the court in an affidavit saying here's what happened, here's why I don't know, and the court decides, then gives us permission to usually serve by publication. So then we have to work out, well, we think this is where the person may have lived last. And then we have to file in the newspaper, two weeks in a row in certain language. It has to be done seven days before the hearing. I’ve also never had any one step up from a newspaper publication. But maybe one day.

Amanda: Is all of that happening before birth or after birth in that termination window? Is there a prescribed amount or space and time where that needs to occur?

Shayla: We have to do it all after the birth, but prior to whatever hearing we're having. So sometimes, if we know what to do, we have situations like that, we ask the court to make sure they give us a couple of weeks, just so we have time. We know if we have to publish. Usually, we've planned ahead. And so we just make sure we tell the court to give us like five weeks because you're going to take a week to get us information, then we’ve got to get the publication and then we want to make sure we have enough time before the hearing. Because if you mess it up, you have to do it over again. And we don't want to do that.

Amanda: Yeah, for sure not. And so is the hopeful adoptive family waiting in state during that period of time if they’re from out of state? Or they’ve already gone back?

Shayla: No, they can go home as soon as they have a couple of things. One is the hospital says they're good and the baby is discharged. One thing I'll note is in Iowa, we have to have someone check the child out of the hospital. And so the way that that historically has always been done is that the attorney has to go to the hospital and sign all the discharge papers and sign everything. There are a few hospitals that are a little more helpful. And will let them maybe the birth mothers sign something rather than driving six hours round trip, but some won't. And that's fine. Usually, the adoptive parents just don't want to live in his hospital. So let's get this moving. So after the baby's ready, that's fine. The next thing we have to do is get permission from the state. This is only if the adoptive parents are not from the same state as the baby was born in. So presuming I'm usually doing the work if the baby is born in Iowa, and going to Minnesota going to Tennessee. And so then it's a process called the ICPC. It's the interstate compact on the placement of children. One state has to give permission for the child to leave the state and the other state has to give permission for the child to come into the state. Every state has a slightly different list of what they want. We start that process five days after baby is born. The reason is we have to have that release of custody signed and submit that with the paperwork. So there's paperwork signed by the adoptive parents saying we're taking the risk, we understand XY and Z. Here's who we are. Here's our home study. Here's who's supervising our home studies moving forward. And then the birth parents, whoever has signed consents are providing information about their background, that releases of custody, and then we have to provide the medical records depending on the state, the medical records of discharge from the baby's birth, from pregnancy, etc. And then we submit all of that. These days it's electronic to the state of Iowa. And actually, it's pretty good and pretty quick. And then they either give us approval or come back to us, saying what about this and this, there are other documents to certify, etc. But then they send it to the other state and that state might have some questions or not ask for more documents or follow up and then wait to get some tentative approval. Then the adoptive parents can go home across state lines with the baby. Depending on the state, it's a few days to a week.

Amanda: It is a much better process. Eight years ago, we spent three weeks in Florida waiting for permission to come home to Arkansas, which you think would sound like so much fun, right? Go hang out in Florida for three weeks, when you're caring for a newborn? Not quite so much.

Shayla: Especially in a hotel or Airbnb, you're all stuck in a small space, and no one's sleeping no matter what.

Amanda: You nailed and I think you've described those three weeks. That is amazing. Okay, so I feel like we've covered what types of adoption are allowed, kind of the general process, how birth fathers play into the process, and when intended parents or hopeful adoptive families can expect to be able to travel home.  I think there are a few other questions that oftentimes show up in my inbox or my DMs that I'd like to cover as well. You touched earlier that self-matching was allowed or independent matching was allowed. Are there any restrictions as it relates to sharing your profile yourself, whether it be through paid means or advertising or sharing it through word of mouth?

Shayla: There are not. And this is probably your area more than mine in terms of what's best. But when I talk to clients, I give them advice. Not necessarily about that part. But maybe you should talk to someone, maybe you should get some help. Because honestly, that is what is the most important to find a match. It’s everyone in your life. The matches come from so many interesting connections of somebody and who knows somebody who was pregnant and once placed child for adoption. So you just never know where matches are going to come from. And one of the things that I talked to adoptive parents about is the fact that I am the legal person. But you guys might want to talk to a counselor. This is a really hard process. And often very long. And you need to get comfortable with maybe not sharing all the details of your struggle, but at least saying we're looking for adoption, and sharing that and putting it out there. Because that's how you're going to find a match. So you really want to share it.  It's all legal. And I will tell everyone, you know, put it on Facebook. Make a profile. I can't speak to the benefit of the advertising. But it's allowed. Throw it out there as much as you can. Put your private information everywhere you can. Because somebody might be a good match and might know someone.

Amanda: Yeah, and you're exactly right. I coach my clients through how to do that. And I share it you know, there are safe or private ways that you can do this. You can create Google Voice numbers, you can get a burner phone, etc. And, you know, kind of remove some of your personal identifying information, like what city you live in and what your last name is, right? It's got to be the right type of profile. You don't want to just share anything. You’ve got to share a profile that makes an emotional connection with your audience. It’'s easy for people to take with them, it's easy for them to you know, get on and read about you or listen to your story or you know, those types of things. But the more often you're sharing your profile, the greater the likelihood you're going to match. 95% of my clients who really follow my steps are matching themselves within a year. And it's because they take consistent action on getting out there and sharing their profile and all the ways that are legal in their state. That's what I always say, I can tell you what's working with helpful adoptive families, and I can tell you from a marketing perspective, how to make a high-quality profile. But you've got to talk to an adoption attorney and understand what's legal in your state because that's the one boundary we never want to cross. You don't want to put your adoption opportunity in jeopardy because you've done something wrong from the get-go of how you connected or shared your profile or quite honestly, even if you've bought them a cup of coffee. It's really important that you understand what's allowed from a support perspective before you start having these conversations. It's really important. That reminds me of one other topic that you mentioned, which was counseling and so you mentioned both for the hopeful adoptive family. I always counsel folks to pay really close attention to counseling, because it is something that I firmly believe is really beneficial for both sides. Can you talk to me about what type of resources you direct your clients or expectant parents to as you're going through the process as an adoption professional?

Shayla: Yeah, it depends on where they're coming from, as well. Many times, if they're working with an agency, all these things are covered and the agency and I just have a call of, okay, what have you done about this, and who's doing this, what do you expect, and to make sure that no one is assuming the other party's doing that. But if we're talking about maybe an independent or separate process without an agency, I have a list of names of people. I want to make sure it’s someone who understands the process and is more focused on the experience of what happens to a birth mother, what she's experiencing, what support she needs, and that can be very different. In terms of the adoptive parents, many times I'll find they already have someone. Maybe it was a marriage counselor, or whatever it was, because many times it's just getting through whatever struggle they've already had, whether it be fertility, or going through the adoption. The waiting process can be hard on a relationship, the hope, the disappointment, or whatever it may be in terms of birth parents. They have the right under Iowa to three hours of counseling before they sign anything paid for by the adopting parents. And because we want to always keep the process moving, we want to make sure that she has that resource set up. Sometimes we'll talk if she doesn't want to do it in advance, we'll have a conversation with a social worker of a hospital. Other times I set her up with a counselor because it can also take a long time to get into a counselor. And is that going to help you if I get you counseling in five, or six weeks after birth? 

Amanda: Yeah, that's for sure. That is good. Under Iowa law, if she needs more than three hours, does that have to count towards the $2,000 requirement? Or is that something that can be separate?

Shayla: That is a good question. I'm going to err on the side at the moment that I might want to keep that included since it's after birth. But I probably have to look that up later.

Amanda:  I've never said on that side of the table, so to speak. And so I'm like, I don't know the appropriate amount of time for you to go through that process from a counseling perspective. I know for me personally, on the other side of the table it took some time to work through those things. However, I had an infertility journey that brought me to adoption. So you know, a little messy on all sides. Okay, well, that is fantastic. That's all of the questions off the top of my head on adoption specifically. I do have two final things. What would you share with someone if they were just starting this journey? But you did touch on surrogacy earlier as being a service that your firm also offers. So I would certainly love your perspective on surrogacy and an overview of how that process works. Because I do think that would be helpful for our audience. But if someone were just starting on the adoption journey, what would you want them to know? As they get started?

Shayla: Typically, I do often have clients who are coming to me as the starting point, which I always find interesting. So I give them suggestions of all the resources available. Do you want to talk to an agency? Here's the benefit. If you don't want to do that, what you do want to do? Here are a couple of agents or services that can help you on more of an independent match. But you might need that help, just as you're talking about pushing out there in the shares. I don't do that. I don't know anything about it. I can tell you that you probably need it. And you need to talk to someone who knows what they're doing. One of the biggest things I do though, is not to tell them about a legal process and some other risks, but to talk about counseling because it's a long process and there are no guarantees. And so I want to make sure they're set up in a positive way. I have some fantastic stories where an adoption fell through. And then I got to finally complete the adoption with the family. And it's amazing. It was just a different match that happened. And so it can happen. It may fall through the first time and then you magically find another match as you're telling everyone so it just really depends on what happens and how far you're sharing. But it can't happen but you need to be prepared to be there for the long haul because there might be some heartbreak in the middle.

Amanda: That totally makes sense. And that's really great advice because it is not an overnight thing. And we can all get excited and wrapped up in statistics, but they're just that and every journey is different. And there are always outliers in those statistics that make things go much slower, much faster. And there's no crystal ball to look in and say, “this is what's going to happen.” That's just not the way things work. And I agree with you, it's having the right support system along the way. Tthat is what's going to make it easier for you to process and deal with those emotions as they come up. That's really hard. So I do want to just again, take the moment since you opened the door on surrogacy. That's fine to educate our audience a little bit more about surrogacy and how maybe it's different. Because I know in some states surrogacy is completely different than adoption. So if you wouldn't mind just to kind of walk us through the process generally, that would be super helpful.

Shayla: Yeah, definitely. And surrogacy in some ways does have a little bit of crossover. Iowa doesn't have a super clear law some states do, where you fill out some form, and t's easy to tell the state what you're doing and finish the legal process. In almost every surrogacy, we start off with a legal contract. So just as an adoption, you can have an agency and you can have someone who's helping match you. Sometimes you have a sister or a neighbor or somebody else we call that more compassionate surrogacy where you're not paying as opposed to compensated surrogacy where often someone that you don't know is being paid for living expenses, etc. To go through the process in the state of Iowa, genetic connection to the child is important. That's not the same for all states. And so I really seem to be advised against having doing a surrogacy where there's no genetic connection, or very concerning to me is if the surrogate use called traditional surrogacy uses her egg, so she is genetically related to the child. And the reason I really advise against that is you have zero guarantee. So it’s much more like adoption. She has to terminate her parental rights in the same way. However, we do have a court case that supports contracts and surrogacy contracts are enforceable. And I think that has really given a lot of agencies and individuals competence and I've seen surrogacy in Iowa skyrocket. So what typically, sometimes you say, which came first chicken and egg, you know, people come to me at all different stages. I talked to someone earlier today, and I sent him to the medical clinic. I'm talking about that IVF, Doctor, let's start there. But many times whether they are with an agency or not, you have your match. Then you need to make sure she's a proper candidate for surrogacy. So your agency helps you do that. Your fertility agency or clinic helps you do that, looking at her medical records, and doing some testing because there's no point in drafting a legal contract until we've hit the point that we really think this is going to work. But we think you're going to get there. And so I'm talking to clients ahead of time, no reason to wait, we can even give me all your paperwork, and I can hold it and you can tell me the moment that the labs come through is okay. But I don't really want to spend time on the legal process if all of a sudden you find out that your surrogate match isn't going to work. So really, that medical part is important first. It doesn't hurt to be armed with information. Then we draft the contract, do a little negotiating, and everybody signs. We send a letter to the clinic so they have it officially. I always recommend attorneys on both sides. And do your transfer. You know, they've agreed to one embryo, two embryos, whatever it is, in 99.9% of my cases. The minimum of one of the intended parents is related to the baby thing, we have sperm donated. We don't usually have to have a surrogate if it's donated sperm, but donated ovum, fine, whatever it is. We tell the clinic, to go for it. I tell my clients they really need me for a while but I'd love to hear good news, so tell me about your transfer. We don't do a whole lot until about week 20. And the work on the parent process. Nothing magic. We just want to make sure you have a good viable pregnancy. We've gotten a bit into it. But we don't want to wait until the last minute. We want to get our court order. Unlike the negotiation is pretty straightforward, mostly factual. Everybody's signing documents kind of saying the same thing. Hey, I'm the surrogate. It's not my baby. Hey, I'm the intended parent. This is my baby. In court, we all agree. The doctor signs something to just get the parentage right prior to birth. So you'll hear pre-birth and post-birth orders. Technically, Iowa is a post-birth state. We can't get an order that really, really matters or helps you until after birth, but we can start the process, and I like to file it with the court. Sometimes they take several days just to get it through the button pushing, and then a few days for the judge to sign. But at that point, once the judge signs, they're able to see it, they read everything, they've gone through the whole file, and it makes the post-birth order a lot faster. In the pre-birth, because we've argued about paternity, the court will establish and disestablish paternity. And so the court will say, we get it. Intended father, you're the genetic father, or even if there are two fathers, whoever's the genetic father. If the surrogate has a partner, you're not the genetic father, fine. It also helps the process to be a lot smoother at the hospital. We send the orders to the hospital, it directs the hospital to discharge the baby to the parents. And it's nice because they're there, they have a room with baby, and they're just parenting there. You're there for what you are meant to be, you don't need people involved. Just let me know when the baby's born because they don't have to sign anything else. We want it to be a smooth process where you're focusing on parenting, and I'm focusing on paperwork. And so what do we need after birth? Let us know the name, tell us the date of birth, and things like that. We'd love pictures. It’s not necessary but always fun. And then we go back to the court and say, Hey, court member on everything you knew the same thing, just push the button again, get it signed, we now have a name and a date of birth. In that post-order, the court will terminate the surrogate. She has no legal right, but will only establish a genetic parent. So if you have any donation doesn't matter, heterosexual, same-sex, doesn't matter. You have to have a genetic connection to establish parentage that way. So if you don't have a genetic connection, we then turn around and do a pretty simple but a second-parent adoption. I mean, it does feel unfortunate. I understand. It's frustrating. But we also want to make sure the legal process is done. They can go home, there's no waiting, we do it at some point on Zoom for five to 10 minutes. Everyone understands what they're getting into and the judge feels good about it. We get it done. But we do have to finish that up for a second parent who's not related.

Amanda: That is a really great overview. Thank you, that makes total sense. One other question, do you ever have surrogates that aren't in Iowa? So maybe I live in Iowa, but my surrogate does not, or vice versa? And does that change the overall flow of the process at all?

Shayla: A little bit. Attorneys are all different. I'm licensed in Iowa. I think I will need to apply for me to really have any business helping. I will say you know there's a number of organizations that have great referrals. Quad specifically is an organization where you have to do work to get in. This is not just “Hey, I applied and paid my fee.” But I feel really comfortable referring to my fellow colleagues because I know what they've done. I think we're at the point. It's 50 surrogacies and all these different capacities. And you have to have references. I mean, the people who truly have integrity know what they're doing. And I'll refer to them because I don't feel like I have a lot of businesses doing work. If the baby's not born in Iowa, I have a few where the intended parents live in Iowa, and they really want to get an Iowa order or a state that it's not illegal for surrogacy. The courts are really difficult. And so we've done a couple because other states sometimes will recognize our orders. But usually, even I have attorneys who are asking me, well, can't I just give you my whatever order from whatever other state. You can, but the attorneys at these hospitals know me and call me if there's a question. And the hospitals feel good about these orders. And I think it really might mangle some of that relationship and make things just a little bit harder to have an order from California. It's doable, sure. Or I need to transcribe it which is a silly process where I pretty much go to our court and say hey, they made an order recognize it here. And why are you paying for that? I'm gonna also say I'm in the Midwest. So usually legal fees are cheaper than other places.

Amanda: But that is true. Yeah, I've heard some comparisons over the years between states and it is quite eye-opening. My personal experience has been South Dakota, Arkansas, and Florida. So those are my life points of reference, but others have definitely been eye-opening. That is a really good perspective. And I love your mention of Quad A. That is something that I'm personally really passionate about because I do really believe in it. For the audience when we're talking about Quad A, it literally means four A's in a row as the organization. But it's really the governing body if you will for me, you know that I look to whenever it comes to adoption law and finding adoption attorneys in particular. If I'm referring you to any adoption attorney, it is one that I've personally met with, you know, in a situation like this or conference that I've attended with them. If I don't have a reference for someone like that, and I always go to that website, because to your point they have you all have to go through such a rigorous process in order to be a part of that organization. And you to me are the only experts out there. So that's really important as well.

Shayla: And there are certain things that we are agreeing to do as we join. We're agreeing to use attorneys who know what they're doing and I think that just puts more integrity into the process. And I always feel good referring to an attorney, if they're in Quad A. Hopefully I've met them but not always. And I always feel good. I'll get random calls. And we can just chit chat, and there's just a little bonding. It’s like, “Okay, we've all gone through this process. And that means we know what we're doing. So let's talk about it.”

Amanda: Yeah, that is awesome. Well, this has just been such a great conversation today. And I think our audience is going to find it highly educational. So I do really appreciate your time. Are there any parting thoughts that you'd like to share with our audience? And also, how can they get in touch with you? If they're looking for an adoption attorney in Iowa? 

Shayla: I appreciate the chance to talk about it. I really do love doing both adoptions and surrogacy family building. It’s just so much fun, so heartwarming. And at the end of the day, I feel good about what I've done. So I don't know if there are parting words. On the legal side. I mean, even with surrogacy, it's a long process. And so I would just say buckle up, make sure you arm yourself with information, maybe from the attorney, maybe from the doctor. And then just make sure that you have a plan to get through it. Make sure you're taking care of yourself and and that you and your partner are in a good place when you finally have your placement. And so it's not very legal. But I think that is the hardest part of it. The legal I can explain, the legal I can help with. Hopefully there are fewer concerns about that part. And then you feel free to reach out. I'm at a firm called McCormally and Cosgrove, and we're in Des Moines, Iowa, although we do work all over the state of Iowa. And you can reach out to us call us 515-218-9878. Feel free to send me an email. My email is just my first name Shayla@MCIowalaw.com. And we are here to answer questions wherever you are in the process. I have clients who come back a year or two later with a placement and I'd rather get you the information then you worry about what you don't know.

Amanda: Exactly. Well. We'll be sure to link to your website in the show notes and anyone that obviously reaches out to us well, we'll send them your way. But we really do appreciate your time today. Shayla, thank you so much. 

Shayla: Oh, yeah. It was good to see you have a great weekend. 

Amanda: Wasn't that a great conversation with Shayla? Not only is she one just an amazing human being who I absolutely adore. But I think she really broke it down in a very succinct and easy to follow fashion. No matter if you were intending on adopting a child through private adoption or working with an agency or if you're considering surrogacy if you want to get in touch with Shayla, be sure and check out the website. And if you want to learn more about how to adopt a baby, check out this video right here because it will walk you through the process step by step.