The Benefits Of Embryo Adoption

The Benefits Of Embryo Adoption

There's only one type of adoption that allows you to be the gestational carrier of your child, costs about $15,000, and allows you to adopt in about one year. We are talking about embryo adoption. More specifically, today, I’m having a conversation with Mark from the National Embryo Donation Center, the world's largest organization for adopting embryos, based right here in the United States.

Amanda: Mark, thank you so much for being willing to join us today. We're very excited to have you here.

Mark: Amanda, it's a pleasure. I love what you're doing. And we're happy to be a part of it.

Amanda: Oh, thank you so much. My audience reaches out to me all the time trying to learn all the different types of adoption. That's the reason why I'm so excited for our conversation here today. I had the good fortune of meeting your organization when I was going through my own adoption journey back in 2012 and 2013. So I'd love it if you could just start the conversation by telling us a little bit more about the National Embryo Donation Center and what you do with that wonderful organization.

Mark: Sure, well, we are the largest embryo adoption organization in the world in terms of the number of babies born; it's over 1400. Now, we are celebrating this year, our 20th anniversary. So we're not the first but we have, you know, by the grace of God grown to be the largest and and most successful in those terms. We love what we do and we were formed to address the crisis of what was going on with cryo-preserved embryos, embryos remaining from IVF. Understandably, couples, when they're going through IVF often have sort of tunnel vision. They're just thinking, I want a baby, I want a baby. Very understandable. Rarely are they thinking what am I going to do, if I have embryos remaining, if I have my two or three children that I want, but I still have four or five, six or more embryos remaining. So many couples were finding themselves in that situation in the late 90s or early 2000s. That is why the National Embryo Donation Center was born. Because we believe that these tiny lives needed a great option for life outside the womb. So here's what we do. Basically, we are here for those couples who have finished building their families through IVF. They can donate their embryos to the NADC, free of charge, we take those embryos and store them in our medical partner’s lab here in Knoxville, Tennessee. We and our medical partners at Southeastern Fertility are co-located in the same building. So it's a very handy arrangement. So we keep them here. And then what we work to do is find recipients or adopters, for those embryos, couples who want to use those embryos to either build or add to their families. And as I mentioned, you know, over 1400, babies have been born through the end EDCs work. So it's just the wonderful work of blessing children and building families every day. My role in that is to get the word out or to lead our efforts to get the word out. I'm the Marketing and Development Director. So 70% of my job is marketing. Part of it is doing things like this talking to folks like you who are interested in embryo adoption, a lot of my job is helping our families tell their stories because those are really compelling. Those are the people who have gone through it. And the other 30% of my job is fundraising because we are a 501c3 nonprofit. So even though we do raise a lot of money through program fees, it certainly helps to have a charitable revenue stream to keep program costs low, and to pay for significant improvements to the organization that are outside the general fund. So it's my job to help build that charitable revenue stream up. So my job is on the development side, keeping the organization strong on the marketing side, making sure people know we're here and what we're about. And I'm so glad you reached out and were already familiar with us.

Amanda: Yeah, well, I can tell you from my personal experience, when I reached out to you on my own journey, you guys were so patient and so kind to answer every question. My audience knows I have all the questions about all the things. And you guys were just so patient with us as we went through it. You all were also a really great emotional support. So it ended up not being a viable route for us to build a family. I was not a good genetic carrier for carrying a child to full term. But it was a really great eye-opening experience for me. I'd love it if we could just talk about the process in general. And so again, I think there are two different primary audiences that might benefit from your services. One is those folks who have completed their family building and have crowd-preserved embryos that they would like to donate, and the second is the hopeful adoptive families. So let's start with the perspective of the folks who may have embryos that they'd be looking to donate. Can you give us an overview of what that process is like with your organization?

Mark: Sure. It's just as simple as going to the website. Everything is really done through our website on both sides, the donation and the adoption pieces. So you just go to embryo donation.org. I always encourage everybody who wants to donate to read the donation section first. So you'll just find that on the navigation menu, and it's a wealth of information. So if you read all that, and you're comfortable with everything you see, you can go to the donate embryos button, which you can find all over our website, and you just start filling out the fields there. That is what gets the wheels turning on your journey with the NADC. Now from there, we will send you some forms and consents and there will be some paperwork that is really needed to get the process going in earnest. It's about a six-month wait or so right now if you want to donate embryos. That’s just how long the process takes. If you come and fill out an application to donate embryos on the NADC website, probably six months or so from that date is when we'll actually have your embryos here at the facility in Knoxville. And the reason for that is because shipper tanks, which are the vehicles that we transport these, and the carriers that are loaded on like a UPS or FedEx truck and sent here to Knoxville, those are expensive. There, we only have a few of them, so if we have three and those three are out every week, they can only go to one or two clinics a week, usually just one clinic a week because we take embryos from all over the country. We have a limited number of shipper tanks so there are probably a good number of people in front of you. And you know, you just come into the stream. So we'd like to say donation is not an immediate process, but it is a good and proven process. And the thing is, once your embryos are here, and our medical partners in their lab are taking care of those embryos, your storage fees stop, and we pledge to care for those embryos until they are adopted out. They'll never be destroyed, we're not going to do anything else with them. The whole reason our organization exists is to protect the sanctity and dignity of the human embryo. So that's what we'll do with your embryos. And the work on your end of your potential donor is, is relatively minimal.

Amanda: That's awesome. What type of influence does the donating family have in picking the actual adoptive family for these embryos? And then what type of connection do they have after the child is born?

Mark: Well, that's a good question. It depends. It depends on whether you're gonna go open or closed. It’s about half and half with the NEDC. So we offer open and closed, if you go closed as a donor, it means you just won't have any contact that is mediated by anybody associated with the receiving family. A lot of people want this to be an act of closure, they don't necessarily want to invite a new relationship into their lives. They just want to know that they've done the right thing ethically and in their consciences. So for them, it's an act of closure. You know, they may call and anonymous donors do call and ask if the child has been born, if their embryos had been selected, and if a child has been born and we can tell them that information in a non-identifying way. So in that sort of situation, you're not going to have any contact officially from us. Now. You know, the caveat there is that there really is no such thing as you're well aware anymore as closed or anonymous adoption with 23 and me and all that. Once your child turns 18 he or she is going to be able to track down their genetic origins. So anyone donating embryos, anyone adopting embryos should know that, it's just that with the NEDC, that sort of contact and assistance will not be facilitated or mediated by us. But, you know, it's just a fact, that's how it is. So everybody should be prepared for that and know that. Now, if you go open, then you do have a more significant say in who your embryos go to, because the two sides have to sign off on each other. They work out what's called an open donation agreement, or ODA for short. And that's a written document that is mediated, it's worked out over a period of weeks, usually four to six weeks. And how it works is the recipients will go through our donor database and they have their choice of which embryos they want to select to preserve. If they reserve your embryos, and you're an open donor, the two of you get started on the path to that. You receive information about one another in a non-identifying way at first, and you're going back and forth, separately over the phone with a social worker who serves as a mediator. And her goal is to make sure that that everything lines up and what that it is just a mutual fit of comfortability with each other. First of all, the two sides of the equation, both feel good about each other. And secondly, the level of contact, the type and frequency of contact that you're going to have for that child's first 18 years of life. Although that can range from as little as exchanging a letter once a year, or exchanging social media handles or pictures once a year, all the way to meeting in person. And in some cases, going on vacation together maybe meeting fairly regularly. So it becomes like an aunt and uncle and cousin relationship. Those are rare. But those are awesome relationships for the couples for whom it's a fit. And so in that case, the donors do have a significant say over who their embryos go to. And if it's not a fit and it doesn't work out, then it’s back to the drawing board. So yeah, that's what the two sides look like.

Amanda: That's really helpful. Can you walk us through what the process is, if you are a potential adoptive family?

Mark: Yes. So if you're a potential adoptive family, the process also begins on the website. Again, you go to embryo donation.org. And you'd want to look at the adoption section, we have five or six main sections on our navigation menu. And that's one of them. I always encourage people to look at that adoption section first, especially paying close attention to the list of frequently asked questions and the answers to them. We have about 20 of those on that page. It's our most thorough, comprehensive unpacking of the program. So most of the answers to most of the questions that people will ask are on that list. It probably takes 20 minutes or so to look over so it doesn't take that long. And then if you're comfortable with what you see on that page, you can just click the adopt embryos button, which again is all over our website,, and fill out the forms or the fields on the form. And that's what gets your journey started as an adopter through the NEDC. You know, you pay a $515 program fee. And once you've done that and submitted your form, you're in. Then an auto-generated email will come to you with forms and consents that you need to fill out. And once we have that in hand, our team will reach back out to you to schedule you for an initial appointment here at the NEDC in Knoxville. So you and your spouse will come here - by the way those appointments get scheduled, usually about three months or so in advance. And so what happens is you and your spouse come here you're here for about a half day you meet your whole care team. The physician who would perform your frozen embryo transfer will spend a good amount of time with you. He will perform a couple medical exams, a saline-infused sonogram and a trial embryo transfer just to make sure that the womb is suitable for carrying a pregnancy and hopefully, you receive medical clearance that day. Once you've received medical clearance and your home study is completed and reviewed at the NEDC, we do require that parents pass a home study that's important to a lot of the people who donate embryos through us so it does mimic traditional adoption in that way. So once you have medical clearance, and once your home study is completed and reviewed, those are the two key milestones that you need to clear to be able to have access to our matching database. And from there, it's basically just as easy as scrolling through on your phone or your laptop, all of the available embryo sets, and hitting reserve when you find the set or sets that you think you want to try. And so once that match occurs, and again, it takes a little bit longer if you go open. If you go closed, you don't have to work out the ODA. But once that's happened, and everything is lined up, then we'll schedule you for your frozen embryo transfer, and you come back to the NEDC for your second visit, which is for the FET itself. So you make two visits to Knoxville, a total of three nights between the two visits. So not not long, not all that involved. And of course, you know, you can come back if the first embryo transfer is not successful, you can come back a number of times. So that's a quick 36,000 feet up view of what the process looks like.

Amanda: That is awesome. Thank you for going through the whole process, I have a couple of questions that I'll drill in and ask along the way. So as it relates to just kind of the the transfer, the mock transfer, and all of those types of things, you said you're kind of like three months out. Is there any kind of prep work that you would be doing before you come that way, with local fertility doctors or things of that nature? Because I'm assuming that you're then going to transfer back your care to your local doctors, rather than traveling back and forth to your organization?

Mark: Yeah, so that's a good question, Amanda. So you will need to find a fertility clinic in your area with whom you will have an outside monitoring relationship. So that is essential because they're the ones who are going to be making sure that everything looks good as they stimulate your system in preparation for the cycle, both for the mock cycle and for the real thing. They're the ones who are going to be monitoring.The medical protocol comes from us, but they're the ones who are monitoring whether your body is cooperating and getting ready like we want it to. So yeah, you need to find a fertility clinic in your area, it generally does have to be a fertility clinic, not just an OB-GYN specialist. And tell them that you're going to have the frozen embryo transfer elsewhere. But you need to have an outside monitoring relationship, and they should know what you're talking about. Our medical team then walks you through all of that. The other thing to not forget about, of course, is the home study that generally can take, you know, like three months to complete. So it's a good idea if you don't have a home study done to get started on it basically as soon as you've applied because that will that will speed up your journey a little bit.

Amanda: Do you all require a specific home study agency provider? Or is it, you know, find a licensed home study provider in your state? Is that something that they need to kind of wait to hear back from you before finding? Or should they start that process kind of simultaneously?

Amanda: Yeah, find somebody who's licensed to do it in your state. That's all we require. We also accept what's called the snowflakes family evaluation, or SFP. That's sort of a special homestudy alternative that's done by our friends at Snowflakes Embryo Adoption. And those are good options for some people because they can be a little more cost-effective. In some cases, Snowflakes will go anywhere in the country to do it and generally, those are good for two years, whereas traditional home study often is only good for one. So we let our people know about that option as well. Sometimes that can be preferable for people, sometimes not. Sometimes just going with a traditional agency in your state is the better option. But we at least want people to be fully informed. The other potential option of doing the SFP through Snowflakes is those don't have to be reviewed. There is an extra cost when the social worker has to review your home study, just like there's an extra cost for the open donation agreement. Yeah, that's one thing. There's a cost for just about everything. So be prepared. Unfortunately, that's just the way it is.

Amanda: Yeah, well, I mean, it's experts' time going through the paperwork and making sure that we're following the process and the procedures appropriately. So what I love about your organization is that you have a particular mind to keeping the cost as low as you can to make this an affordable adoption option for hopeful adoptive families. And that's why I'm so personally drawn to your organization. So speaking of cost, can you talk us through kind of the the main buckets of expense that we should plan for whether or not our own private health insurance would be an eligible option to cover some of those types of expenses, and just kind of give us an overview about that process?

Mark: Yeah, so the total cost for the first frozen embryo transfer with the NEDC is generally going to be between $10,500 and $12,000. It's possible that it could be a little cheaper than that. It's possible that it could be a little more expensive than that. That total, by the way, excludes travel and lodging, because we do have people who come from all over the country and even some foreign countries. That's one of the fun things about our organization, we're seeing people from all over all the time. So that's sort of the number to plan on for the first transfer. Second and third transfers are usually going to be more like in the neighborhood of $4,500. So they will be considerably more affordable because you've already done most of the preliminary steps. So you just have to pay for the transfer itself, and the medications that are involved. So the main costs that are involved are our program fee. And I'm just going over the biggies, which is which is $2,500. That's the main fee that you pay to the end NEDC, the big one that you pay about a month before your transfer is the medical fee. That is the fee to our medical partners at Southeastern Fertility, for performing the transfer itself. And that fee is around $3,900. That's the biggest fee that you'll pay. There's the home study, which is usually around a couple thousand. There are the medication fees, which can run quite high. Those can run over $1,000. You're going to be paying for labs, ultrasound, things like that, you know a little bit at a time. And you also pay what we call donor fees here at the NEDC. And that's a fee, usually anywhere from $800 to $1,600 per transfer. Sometimes it can be a little cheaper than that. And rarely would it go all the way up to $1,600. I'll say that. But you need to be prepared just in case. Those are fees that you pay to us to help reimburse us for the cost of procuring and caring for the embryos themselves. So that's a little bit of a laundry list. But those are the most common fees. Most health insurance plans will not cover most of the things involved in embryo adoption. Now you may or you may get lucky and check with your provider and find out that they do, which is great. Generally, what we tell people is if things like labs and ultrasounds are covered under your health plan, those will almost certainly be covered. As for the procedure itself, it’s usually not. You want to definitely talk with your health insurance company. You can also speak with the front desk at Southeastern Fertility and they can help dig into that as well to help maximize any benefits that you might have. But I would just say be prepared to not have your health plan cover most of it unless you have just great infertility coverage.

Amanda: Yeah, for sure. So I'll give a couple of tips to the audience from when I was going through my own journey. The labs and ultrasounds felt pretty routine. But the biggest thing that I found that helped me was that I called my fertility clinic and I asked for the procedure codes that we were going to be used in billing. I called my health insurance ahead of time and I said, hey, these are the procedures that I'm going to be doing, here the procedure codes, and they gave me very clear idea of what this was covered and what needed pre-authorization. And so doing that legwork up front helped me personally get a better handle on my budget. I've had a friend who did embryo adoption, and they actually went and sought out grants to help pay for some of the fertility aspects of it. And so those would be the kind of the two tips that I would give the audience if you're thinking through like I really want to do this as sounds like a really affordable option, but I would make sure that I can afford it. Those would be two things I would definitely look into. Earlier, we talked a little bit more about the timeline and kind of gave an overview of the process, doing some rough mental math and thinking that you should probably estimate about a year by the time you kind of go through your mock transfers and your home study and some other things, and then ultimately to become pregnant. That pitch it feels like if you're especially if you're doing the outline that could take about a year, could you correct me if I'm wrong there?

Mark: Oh, no, I don't think I'd correct you, I think I just amended a little bit. I think about a year is right. What we tell people to expect is from the day you apply to the day you're here for your frozen embryo transfer, that's going to be about eight to nine months. So that should be the standard expectation. So yeah, we would say eight to nine months is the standard expectation. There is not much you can generally do to speed that up just because again, you come into the stream and all these things take time. We’re working with hundreds of people at any given time and we're still a relatively small nonprofit with a limited staff, doing the best we can to help everybody and give them personal attention. And you know, if you want to wait longer than that, that’s not going to be a problem. A lot of it just depends upon the pace at which you want to go, and by the time they come to us really want to go as fast as possible. We're almost always able to work those folks in within eight to nine months total. We do reserve spots like if the first transfer is not to be a success, we do reserve spots in upcoming cycles. So we are able to turn you around right away within usually a month or so if you want to give it another try. So that's not a problem at all.

Amanda: That's awesome. Thank you. I have another question. In private adoption, or when you're adopting a child that's already born, it is very typical to have to do an adoption profile to share more about your family with the expectant family. Are there any parallels there in this process?

Mark: Not really. You don't have to do that. But we do have families who have done those profiles. I think they're really helpful if you're going open for sure. Because it can definitely give the donor family increased knowledge and an increased comfort level of who you are. The more transparent you are the more they're going to feel like they know you and both of you are going to get a feel for whether this is a match or not. We've worked with a lot of companies who do those and do great jobs. So I don't think it's a bad thing to have. I also think it's a really helpful thing. It’s not necessary. But I think it's helpful to present your story in a sorta quick way. It just helps with the intentionality of the process. So I think it's a very good thing to have. It's just not necessary.

Amanda: Yeah, no, that's definitely good. And as I coach my community, take the steps that you need to take. So if emotionally you need to do this, because it's going to help you envision what this child's life is going to be like in your family, then awesome. But if you're like, hey, let's just get through the process and do what is necessary, then don't do it. This has been so helpful. Before we wrap up today, though, I just want to see if there's anything else about embryo adoption that we haven't touched upon, that would be really helpful for the audience to know or, any parting thoughts you might have?

Mark: Well, the thing I would say is that this can be a very good option for people who feel like every other avenue has ended in disappointment. That's not to say that it's going to be a guarantee for success. I mean, of the couples who come back to us for multiple transfers, 85% of them do have a baby with the NEDC. So if you're willing to come back for multiple transfers, you know, then your chances are very, very good. It’s not guaranteed, and we don't want to imply that they are, but very good. This is the only way you can become pregnant with your adopted child, which is sort of an amazing thing. And you know, not everybody fits into that. Amanda, you're an example of somebody who has a full life and has walked the perfect journey for you and your family. So it’s not for everybody. But if pregnancy and the chance to gestate the child and experience that bonding is important, and you're having trouble getting pregnant on your own or can't get pregnant on your own, this just may be an option to look into. And we really just recommend that people really take the time to do their homework and do it prayerfully. You don't have to be a Christian to go through us. There's no religious test or anything. But we are a Christian organization. So of course, we would recommend that you prayerfully reflect upon that position and make sure you're together on this. This has been a place of hope and healing for a lot of people. So if you're thinking that maybe that's stirring in your heart, we would hope and pray it would be that for you as well.

Amanda: That's amazing. And where can the audience go to learn more about you?

Mark: Just go to our website. It's embryodonation.org. You'll learn a lot more and it’lll fill in a lot of the gaps that we weren't able to cover today. My contact information is on there. We're always happy to talk with you if you have questions, either over the phone or via email. It's one of the things we're there to do.

Amanda: Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for sharing more about your organization with our audience. We really appreciate you.

Mark: Well, Amanda, thank you. Congratulations on your family. And honestly, thank you for serving in the way that you do. It's I'm sure changing a lot of lives. So thank you for the work you do. And thank you for hosting us today.

Mark: Thank you so much. Wow, wasn't that an amazing conversation with Mark. I am so thankful for what he and his organization are doing for our adoption community. If you're considering adopting an embryo as the method to form your family, then check out the National Embryo Donation Center and learn more about their wonderful organization. And if you want to learn more about what type of adoption is right for you, then check out this video where I walk you through how to decide step by step.